Marking out fluid

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Marking out fluid

This topic has 42 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 4 April 2013 at 02:44 by Len.

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3 May 2010 at 10:18 #51370
Eric Cox
Participant
@ericcox50497
Does anyone know where I can get marking out fluid in a quantity less than 1 litre.
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3 May 2010 at 10:18 #21694
Eric Cox
Participant
@ericcox50497
3 May 2010 at 10:28 #51372
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Permanent Felt tip Box marker.

Regards Ian.
3 May 2010 at 10:54 #51375
Alan Reed 1
Participant
@alanreed1
Chronos sell 200ml bottles of Layout Blue

www.chronos.ltd.uk
3 May 2010 at 19:17 #51392
WALLACE
Participant
@wallace
Cromwell Tools do it – I think it’s in 1 litre containers – that amount should last a lifetime but very careful NOT to spill it on the caprpet – I suggest putting it into much smaller bottles . . .

w.
4 May 2010 at 09:42 #51414
Eric Cox
Participant
@ericcox50497
Thanks all, looks like the felt tip marker wins.
4 May 2010 at 10:12 #51416
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Make sure it’s the PERMANENT one Eric.
4 May 2010 at 19:44 #51426
Michael Wilde
Participant
@michaelwilde12011
Ye I use permanent marker, works a treat!
5 May 2010 at 01:18 #51439
Gone Away
Participant
@goneaway
I find that a PERMANENT marker is OK if it doesn’t have to last a long time … that is, if you mark out and then machine to the line (or whatever) as a first operation. However, I don’t find it very durable if it has to survive many operations or much handling. Moreover, it can chip during the marking out.

If you are going to use it, I would suggest that you clean the surface with a little alcohol first – don’t rely on the solvent in the marker to do that for you.

For me, the real thing is cheap enough, comes in a couple of colours and imo works a lot better. 8-oz and 4-oz brush-cap bottles are freely available locally (Canada).
5 May 2010 at 05:01 #51440
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
When I was in Tech College during my apprentice training, we used copper sulphate solution as a marking fluid. It left a brown (metallic copper I presume) long lasting, non flaking deposit on the surface of the component. It also was a matt surface which showed up thin marking lines well. However, the thought of trying to buy copper sulphate crystals now is probably slightly more difficult than sourcing TNT. I can’t remember how we removed it though (I was too preoccupied with the girls from Hairdressing 1 to concentrate on our tweedy lecturer).

I think that this only works with steel though. However I find that permanent markers here in the UK provide a non flaking, long lasting coating. In fact I find the stuff difficult to remove and have to resort to acetone as a solvent. The marker is clean, easy to control and doesn’t rub off or stain fingers and keeps well. I have used mine for quite a time now without problem.

Dear Sid H. you’re really lucky to be able to get any engineering equipment or component locally. I called in in my local engineering supplier today to find out that they stock very few items now as there is so little of the engineering industry left in this town which was once world famous for it’s engineering prowess and products. They now mostly sell builders and diy tools. Sad but true.
5 May 2010 at 10:47 #51446
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Sure you’re not using the Whiteboard wipe off type marker Sid?? I too have to use a solvent to remove the permanent type.

Easy source for Copper marking fluids Terry, chuck some bits of Copper into a pot of battery acid or use the used boiler pickle (Dilute sulphuric acid based) when it has the green cast to it. When using the pickling tank at school after silver soldering steel parts together, the damn things ALWAYS used to come out Copper plated.

Regards Ian.
5 May 2010 at 11:07 #51448
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
Marked out ally plate last night using permanent black marker, cleaned surface first with meths. Just finished boring hole, paraffin coolant, all the black marker has gone, just as well put in plenty of centre pops. Probably different makes will behave differently.
5 May 2010 at 14:19 #51451
Gone Away
Participant
@goneaway
Ian, yes for sure … that’s why I wrote “PERMANENT” to emphasise it. It can be real embarrassing to find your markings have disappeared at the wrong time.

Terry … true, I probably do take for granted my good fortune in living 10 minutes from this:

http://www.kbctools.com/can/main.cfm

I do have another store close by that sells marking fluid but only in spray cans which I dislike – it gets everywhere (especially on your glasses) and using it in the basement in close proximity to a furnace with a naked flame (pilot) probably isn’t a good idea. There are other sources online although that means keeping the postal and courier service workers in a manner to which I am unaccustomed.

Gordon seems to have experienced what I’ve seen with permanent marker – I’d forgotten to mention the effect of coolant.
5 May 2010 at 22:56 #51454
Trevor Drabble 1
Participant
@trevordrabble1
Eric, if you feel it would be of assisstance, I am prepared to obtain a small container to supply you with maybe 50mL of marking out fluid, and I would be able to deliver it to you at Harrogate on Sunday if that is acceptable.
6 May 2010 at 08:47 #51459
John Stevenson 1
Participant
@johnstevenson1
I use one of those Eddings wide marker pens, the tip looks like a 3/4″ block of felt.

I have had it years and when it runs out I stand it overnight, tip down in a small container of marking fluid and let it wick itself full again.

Sounds a tight arsed method of working but I get the advantage of proper marking fluid and the ease and non spill of a marker pen.

John s.
7 May 2010 at 10:00 #51474
Niloch
Participant
@niloch
Maybe anathema to model engineers inclined solely towards steam but of interest to horologists will be John Parslow’s suggestion in his introductory article to a 15-day skeleton timepiece (ME 4322, 28/03/08 – 10/04/08).

“Polished plate is supplied with a protective film on both sides. I suggest stripping off this film and spraying both sides with two or three coats of red oxide primer paint, available in an aerosol can from motor accessory shops. This will protect the surface from accidental marks and scratches and provide an excellent surface for marking out with pencil or scriber.”
7 May 2010 at 10:17 #51476
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
Perhaps the marking out process should be defined? If it’s just to make a few lines on a workpiece without any depth of line, how does one use a pricking punch to determine intersections?? Whichever masking media is used, with the exception of Copper sulphate, any cutting fluids are likely to wash off most “Blues”. If a scribed surface is left, it’s no hardship to redefine the lines with the said fluids.

All marking out I was taught involved scribing the surface, any surface covering was to add a contrast, but the original lines were there despite any “Wear”.

Since the advent of DRO’s, some seem to ignore formal marking out and set it out “on the machine”.

Regards Ian.
24 July 2010 at 21:54 #53808
Cyril Bonnett
Participant
@cyrilbonnett24790
copper sulphate

http://www.intralabs.co.uk/page%201

£3.50 delivered
24 July 2010 at 22:21 #53810
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
I agree with Circlip, gave up marking out generally a long time ago, use the DRO, it is more accurate than trying to find/see/feel the intersection with the pricking punch.
25 July 2010 at 08:57 #53817
peter walton 1
Participant
@peterwalton1
Not an answer to the OP but I remember from school metalwork that we used copper solution to aid marking out, anyone know why we used that method. I dont ever see anyone writing about that, perhaps it was the teachers hangup!

Peter
25 July 2010 at 13:34 #53825
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
I don’t know about anyone else, but when I first took metal work at school in 1960, our teacher got us spoting along scribed lines with a center punch, we then cut the metal up with a hacksaw, and filed down to the line leaving half the center punch dots- I can’t remember what it was we were making. The gentleman was proberbly around 60ish, very old to us 13yr old boys. I think later we used copper sulphate to mark out a little block of steel to make the head for a tack hammer. Ian S C
26 July 2010 at 08:01 #53836
John Olsen
Participant
@johnolsen79199
While the DRO does a nice job for coordinate drilling, I quite often do a cheap and nasty but quite effective trick. Draw what you want up in a suitable CAD program, print it out, then stick it onto the job. (Often with double sided tape.) Centre pop through where the holes are supposed to go and Bob is your uncle. Accuracy will of course depend on your printer. I have a little laser printer which does about 300 dots per inch, so the accuracy limit is about 3 thou or so. Not as good as the coordinate drilling, but much better than I would expect to acheive with conventional marking out, and plenty good enough for a lot of work. It is only possible of course where the job is flat

John
26 July 2010 at 11:40 #53838
Sam Stones
Participant
@samstones42903
While serving my time in the toolroom in the 50’s, one or two of the journeymen toolmakers had the task of hand profiling tiny extrusion dies for rubber and plastics. They marked out the very fine profiles having first used copper sulphate.

The results were not only of a much smaller scale (ie. finer lines), but the very thin copper coating remained in place without rubbing off.

These days we have EDM in all its various forms.

Edited By Sam Stones on 26/07/2010 11:43:06
26 July 2010 at 11:40 #53839
Sam Stones
Participant
@samstones42903
Edited By Sam Stones on 26/07/2010 11:41:05
26 July 2010 at 17:10 #53844
Richard Parsons
Participant
@richardparsons61721
Hi Sam

Can you remember how it was made up? I have a feeling that it was copper sulphate in very weak acid. Probably vinegar.
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