WIN10 on new Laptop.

[TomfileryParticipant @tomfilery]

Clive,

I too, feel your pain as I went through something similar when I bought my wife (at her request) a Microsoft Surface computer (a couple of years ago). We ended up thoroughly confused and with two different accounts on the computer with different access rights. It was easier to leave them as set up than attempt to change them.

As SillyOldDuffer points out, Microsoft use the word "account" for so many different things that it is almost impossible to know which account they are referring to, unless you are really up on the semantics.

When Microsoft introduced Windows 8, they seemed to be trying to compete with Mac and adopted a " you don't need a manual for a Mac, we'll do the same" attitude. In my view, what they should have done was provide a document detailing where experienced Windows users would find the usual controls etc. Eventually, they had to relent and reinstate the Windows Desktop (which was there, but you had to look for it). I felt, at the time, that if I was running a business using Windows XP, there would be no way I'd have upgraded without Microsoft providing a significant training package for my staff. I suspect they lost a lot of business as a result.

I was so disgusted with their apparently cavalier attitude to customers (you will use it how we want you to use it, rather than how you want to use it) that I gradually started doing more and more in Ubuntu (Linux). I can boot into either Windows, or Ubuntu and I'm currently finding my way around Oracle's VirtualBox, which allows me to run Windows programs inside Ubuntu (in a Windows session). I'm just starting with my Windows TurboCad and Finale Guitar (music software) inside the VitrtualBox and am finding they run Ok (so far). It's not for the faint-hearted, but can be made to work with a little perseverance.

Don't give up. There are other ways to skin your cat (so to speak).

Regards Tom

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 13/12/2016 11:07:38:

No problem to re-format the disk and install something like this: Windows 7 pro plenty of other vendors out there.

Russell

P.S. It seems to me that the main ideas behind W 10 are for MS to take control of your computer, push advertising, and sell Apps.

With a new computer (late 2016 vintage), I have been told by the internet community that you cannot downgrade from W10 Home to W7. It is possible if W10 Pro is pre-installed. If upgrading to W10 Pro from Home edition, the downgrade to W7 option is not possible.

I also asked if it was possible to reformat the disk and install W7, but was told that Might not work because some of the new drivers would not be compatible with W7.

I'm sure there are ways around the problem, but I don't know nearly enough about computers to try. I like the sound of Classic Shell so will have a look at that.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Computers use a foreign language as far as I can see. Having said that our new computer with win8 installed uprated itself to win10. Not so bad until all the unwanted extras started downloading. I took the bull by the horns and cleared everything out, then re-installed win 8. Now works fine, lost a few bits, old photos, addresses etc. but no great probs.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

If you have a fairly new model of home computer, it is quite likely that drivers are simply not available for W7. That's because it's not worth the manufacturers developing drivers for and supporting both W7 and W10 in that market and new peripheral devices have come along since they stopped developing W7. I came to grief when my previous employers insisted on buying me a crappy home laptop (only available with W8) and trying to install W7 on it. As there weren't any W7 drivers available, many of the peripherals wouldn't work. Luckily this was the trigger to jettison the noddy laptop and get a "real" one with W7 pro. That was a fiasco and I've moved on since then….

I have been using W10 on several machines for the last 12-18 months and it's fine. Much better than W8 by a looooong way.

Bear in mind that products like Virtualbox and Crossover for running Windows apps in Linux don't tend to support sophisticated programs such as modern 3D CAD. I guess they need to access the graphics etc at a low level that isn't possible on a virtual machine. So the likes of Fusion 360, Solidworks, Geomagic etc won't run or even install. Without wishing to start a fire, although it sounds as if Turbocad works in a VM, it doesn't quite cut it for me.

Once you get past this stumbling block, you won't look back. And you can sign in with a 4 digit pin number with W10 if you prefer it to a password.

Murray

[Enough!Participant @enough]

I think it's highly unlikely that current hardware producers have dropped Window-7 from their list of supported OS's already. They've never done it that quickly before. If for no other reason than this

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Right, here we go, I have now got a Skype set up but then found I have to pay a sub. to get it to run @1.8 P a min.

The set up was easy and totally unlike yesterday but they still wanted a verification as to who I was so had to give another one of my email addies.

Then, as i started the lap top it wanted to upgrade the software and 1 ,5 hrs later it shut down and re-booted. Now i have been poking around and I see I have Word, 365 is it?, I can have a freebie for a month and then subscribe. it looks as if i will not subscribe and will try to load my Word 97.

No asking for a Microsoft acct. number today, yet! Quite bluntly some of the functions are bizzare, opening but have no function and saying , 'Not Synced'. try as I might I cannot sync.anything particularly the email system.

It looks now as if i will be visiting one of the Grandsons who seem to have far more ability than I do on comuters.

Clive.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

As others have said, get rid of Windows in favour of Linux.

I use, as do others, Mint which itself is based on Ubuntu. I use Firefox & Thunderbird for browsing & email, Libre Office for letters and simple spreadsheets. Initially I used an old version of Paint Shop Pro via Wine, but now I use The Gimp – a sort of Photoshop equivalent. And DOSemu to run an old DOS based database.

For CAD I use DesignCad Pro 2000 again via Wine. I do have Design Cad Pro 3D v 17.2 which more or less runs via Wine, and I understand that Design Cad Pro 3D v 24 will also run via Wine. But anyway, these programs could also be run via Virtual Box & XP if required.

Skype does work via Linux, but for some reason has trouble connecting when the other person answers, and incoming calls aren't that good either, but if a pre-arranged call can be made, it's absolutely fine.

Finally, with Mint, upgrades are done on the fly if you want, when you want.

Yes it will take a bit of time to get it up and running successfully, but once done it will simply work, and work, and work… The biggest danger is that you will forget what you have done to get it working, it's that reliable.

Go on, give it a try, you know you want to.

Peter G. Shaw

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Following problems with a recent update Microsoft have said;

"Some customers using Windows 10 have reported difficulties connecting to the internet,"

"As a first step, we recommend customers restart their PCs.

"If this does not resolve the problem, visit our website for further support."

Right, your internet connection is broken so visit our website -Doh!

Russell.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 13/12/2016 19:01:52:

Now i have been poking around and I see I have Word, 365 is it?, I can have a freebie for a month and then subscribe. it looks as if i will not subscribe and will try to load my Word 97.

Better still install LibreOffice, a complete office package compatible with MS Office and totally free. Available for Windows, MAC, and Linux.

Russell.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 13/12/2016 18:34:12:

I think it's highly unlikely that current hardware producers have dropped Window-7 from their list of supported OS's already. They've never done it that quickly before. If for no other reason than this

You misunderstand the situation. Windows 7 development has stopped and you can't even get OEM machines with Windows Pro installed now. So why would an OEM have W7 drivers developed for a new home laptop that only runs W10? Short answer is, they won't. Any new peripheral devices requiring drivers will get them in W10 flavours only.

It's possible that you may find drivers for the new devices out there that work with your homebrew W7 installation, most likely ones that were developed for W8, possibly some generic W10 ones but it's trial and error, with no guarantee they won't be wiped out by some subsequent update.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Murray:

Bear in mind that products like Virtualbox and Crossover for running Windows apps in Linux don't tend to support sophisticated programs such as modern 3D CAD. I guess they need to access the graphics etc at a low level that isn't possible on a virtual machine.

Please google "Virtualbox accelerated graphics" before posting.

Regards, John.

(ps. I do use Virtualbox; I need it to fill in a time sheet that runs only on an old, incompatible version Explorer, so I have an XP virtual machine solely for this task – everything else, including software for a client – runs on Linux)

(pps – the software that I develop actually runs on the graphics chip; I have used Amazons offering to run "graphics chip based" software on their virtual machine offerings. The only constant is change…)

[PaulRParticipant @paulr]

…and this might tell you something about the future of Linux and Windows:

https://news.microsoft.com/2016/11/16/microsoft-contributes-to-open-ecosystem-by-joining-linux-foundation-and-welcoming-google-to-the-net-community/

For anyone curious to try a version of Linux (and there are lots!) take a look at Distrowatch (and put the fun back in computing as they say):

https://distrowatch.com/

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

word 97 + next gen word(?2000) work fine under wine on Mint tho you will need libre office for compatibility with docx files tho later versns of word can happily read doc files – you can generate docx but some of the more complex macros in docx don’t it seems work but I’ve never used these

I’d ditch Mickeysoft if I were you – I bought a couple of secondhand Thinkpad machines for about ?100 each tho needed ?15 added for a new battery)- built originally for professional use + solidly built tho some 5yrs old – very responsive under Mint, the smaller X200s gives me 3hrs battery use for word processing etc – I use 32bit mint as use Wine quite a lot but mint64 works fine and trivial under Linux to have a dual boot machine (in fact one is triple boot)

Edited By Frances IoM on 13/12/2016 21:20:44

[Enough!Participant @enough]

It would be nice if someone could ask a question about Windows (or Linux … or Mac) without having it turned into a Windows/Linux/Mac peeing contest every single time.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Paul R,

After many years of seeing what Microsoft has done and said about Linux, I for one remain very suspicious about Microsoft's motives.

Bandersnatch,

I changed to Linux when Microsoft withdrew support for XP. Since then I have watched with sheer disbelief Microsoft's shenanigans over Windows 8 & 10. Do you wonder that I for one will extol Linux over Windows? Or Apple too for that matter. I want to do what I want with MY computer, when I want, and without any interference from Microsoft or Apple.

To put it another way. You, presumably, have a car. Let's say it's a normal run-of-the-mill car and it's fitted with tyres by the ABC company. What would you think, when the tyres wear out, if the manufacturer said that you had fit the same tyres again when there are perfectly good and maybe even better tyres available? Well, I know what I would say, and the second word would begin with o and end with f! That is how I look at both Microsoft and Apple.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 14/12/2016 17:02:31:

After many years of seeing what Microsoft has done and said about Linux, I for one remain very suspicious about Microsoft's motives.

.

+1

A generous interpretation might be:

"keep your friends close but your enemies closer" …

MichaelG.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Bandersnatch – Hear, Hear – I agree completely with your sentiment. Many years ago I used to add my 2-pennorth to this forum with advice on Linux, as a (relatively) long-time user. As you so eloquently put it, I was p***ed on so many times that I initially simply stopped posting, then later re-registered under an assumed name. (but was even p***ed on for doing that!). It is very difficult to post advice, only to have it rubbished.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 14/12/2016 17:02:31:

Do you wonder that I for one will extol Linux over Windows?

In an appropriate situation? Not at all if that is your wont. And if you want to start your very own thread along those lines, break a leg. I simply object to people being so sure theirs is the one true path, that they force it on everyone else as soon as an "opposing" OS is mentioned. So that it isn't possible (in this forum) to have a discussion or get a straight question answered about Windows (or Linux or Mac) without the fanatics of alternative OS's burying the thread in their well-worn diatribe.

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Bit late now but you’d have been better using a local account.
Also worth looking up how to set you network connection to metered, that way you have a little control over the updates.

Steve

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by John Alexander Stewart on 13/12/2016 20:59:28:

Please google "Virtualbox accelerated graphics" before posting"

Hmm. I thought I'd done better than that by actually trying (and failing). Admittedly I tried VMware and Crossover but not Virtualbox. Neither seemed able to run SW or Fusion. Perhaps I should have persevered longer but I have a life to live.

Crossover has a list of compatible programs that seems to suggest not wasting your time trying the get SW working. I forget my trials with VMware but the bottom line is it didn't get anywhere.

TBH, the place for CAD and CAM in my house would be on a Windows (10) machine. As a professional engineer, I wouldn't be able to use Linux exclusively, even if I wanted to, as most of the apps I need aren't available in a suitable format. I would then transfer the g code to a Linux machine in the workshop.

There's no right or wrong, just various options.

Murray

[TomfileryParticipant @tomfilery]

Bandersnatch,

Might I offer an alternative viewpoint?

I do agree that there is nothing worse than an evangelical convert preaching that they have "seen the light and ye all must follow", however, the majority of the inputs to this thread to the OP were along the lines of "I sympathise with you, found myself in a similar position and now use this", rather than, as you appeared to read, "you are an idiot for using Windows, so it serves you right".

Were it not for threads such as these show that alternative operating systems are useable, one might be forgiven for thinking that Microsoft was the only option. It was as a result of a similar thread a couple of years ago that I actively looked into Linux and realised that it was a viable alternative operating system (though not perfect) and that you didn't have to be a programmer to make it work. As a result of that thread I now do most of my computing in Ubuntu and use Windows for very little.

I thought Peter Shaw gave a good explanation as to why he moved from Windows, based on his personal experience, and he was sympathetic to Clive (the OP) . Whilst I admit Peter's input didn't resolve Clive's primary problem, I would hope it gave him food for thought and encouraged him to seek alternatives to Windows. If threads had to restrict themselves to answering the OPs initial question, most on this forum would be very short.

Regards Tom

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I have just bought a brand new windows 10 computer and am scared to switch it on for the first time, having read this thread. When I switch it on for the first time, do I do so with the broadband connected or is it better to connect to the broadband after the initial setup?

As far as I can see I don't need a Microsoft account and did not get one when my current computer was updated to windows 10 and it does all I want just fine.

​ Life with computers just seems to get more and more complicated. The only printed help that came in the computer box was a tiny two page leaflet that gave no advice on setting the thing up.

Is there any real advantage in having this Microsoft account ?

Doug

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Doug, my honest advice is DO NOT have the Microsoft acct. I am finding that the lap top I bought is unusable as it asks for a password every time I open something. I cannot do any work on it. Today I visited a Computer shop and asked questions and the first thing he said after my question was, ' load Win 7'.

I dont know what to do now, I have built my own PC's and loaded software but I cannot make head nor tail of this Microsoft Monster. Some people may be happy with WIN 10 but personally it's a bucket of s##te. The lap top is tied up with passwords ad infinitum. Dont use any of the apps. and software provide, you will regret it.

Clive, the original poster.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

There's a lot of wind and guff in this thread. It's worth knowing that you can get a legal upgrade license for Windows 7 on ebay for under £20. For many people that may be the way to go. The rest of us are happy to get on with whatever tool is at hand and suitable for the job in hand, be it Android, Linux, Windows or iOS. I thought that's what marked out a good engineer.

Just bear in mind that my mother (87) has been able to get up and running with Windows 7 and then Windows 10 (and iOS) without having to keep checking under the bed. Admittedly she is still quite compost mental for her age although she might lose a handbag swinging contest in this forum.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Doug;

​I upgraded to Win 10 on the last day of the 'Free' year mainly as I was waiting for reviews from other users & magazines like 'Computer Active & 'Web User' plus other posters comments on here. the main comment from the mags' were not to install the 'standard upgrade' as it would feedback to Microsoft your personal details & usage, shopping habits etc. just install a 'custom' installation in which you can switch off certain buttons that stop feedback to MS. Their comment on this was that it would 'improve / enhance' the users experience, which, to me, means spying on you… maybe I'm too cynical?.

​I loaded the customised version onto my desktop & set it up to my preferences & it's ok… so far. What I have noticed is it has hijacked the IE browser… I used Virgin Media IE browser but cannot log into my mail from their web page ( I have queried this with VM & there were some 'technical issues' according to them ? ), I can get everything, inc.' mail from their webpage but have to use MS win 10 'edge' browser. As I recall MS have said they are not supporting IE from the near future & will be using 'edge' as their main window & 'Bing' as their main search engine, so I am assuming my probs with IE is part & parcel of the 'discontinuing support' scenario from MS.

​I would suggest that you go to 'settings' in your Win 10 OS & change some of the settings buttons to 'off' i.e. 'Privacy' 'personalise' sections for one, I did post a couple of scans from the afore mentioned mags' in this or another similar post dealing with privacy issues, worth a look at if you wish to.

​George.

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