Tooling to buy with Warco WM250 and WM16?

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by JasonB on 07/02/2018 20:52:05:

Though you would be able to use fly cutters and boring heads from a MT3 mill in the lathes spindle. You can also use a MT3 collet holder in the lathe but it will mean you can only hold short work ( no through hole) so a ER lathe chuck is the better option for using your ER collets in the lathe.

The taper in the 250's spindle is an MT4, can you still use MT3 with that? And agreed, ER lathe chuck is sounding like the best idea!

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

I think it's a bit OTT to go for collets in the lathe until you've been through the possibilities with the decent 3- and 4- jaw chucks you get with the 250.

In industrial turning, collets are more often used in repetition work, which almost invariably involves a through-spindle bar feed.

I'd leave that until you work-pattern gets clearer.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

To use the ER collets in your mill you need a chuck like this, for each size or ER collet. Not much point in buying two and two sets of collets so just get an ER32 Coller Chuck and range of ER32 collets. You save a little by purchasing a starter set with say 6 commonly used sizes then add to that as needed.

The best way to use these ER collets in your lathe is with a chuck like this as it allows long work to pass right through into the spindle, not something you need to buy straight away.

So with these two chucks the same collets can be used in either machine and also in things like collet blocks, indexers etc. Again not something you need straight away

Any MT3 taper tooling can be held in you MT4 spindle by using an adaptor this is MT4 on teh outside and will have a MT3 taper on the inside.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by Ross Lloyd 1 on 07/02/2018 22:03:19:

• Assuming I get an R8 mill, am I understanding you correctly that if I just buy a collet chuck for the lathe it would still be possible to use the collet set on both mill and lathe? No taper tooling is needed on the lathe (at least at the headstock end) if that is the case?
• Can one use both ER32 and ER25 in an R8 taper (to get the full range of sizes), and do you need two separate lathe chucks?

Ross, I think Jason has answered most of these queries complete with illustrations. You don't need ER 25 and ER32 the ER32 range covers all of the ER25 sizes there are more collets in a full set ER32 has a larger top end size so more useful in the larger mill. Likewise you need only one lathe ER chuck.

ER25 18 collets from 0.5mm to 16mm
ER32 21 collets from 1.5mm to 20mm

It does seem that Warco now only do the WM18 with R8 taper. Just to add more confusion they also offer the GH18 which is a bit cheaper but the same size.

Take it slowly and research a lot!

John

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

The ER32 collet nut is quite big. I have found it necessary to buy a parallel shank ER11 collet chuck which is held in an ER32 collet. This also allows diameters down to 0.5mm to be held and access close to vertical faces.

Martin C

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by JasonB on 08/02/2018 11:01:16:

To use the ER collets in your mill you need a chuck like this, for each size or ER collet. Not much point in buying two and two sets of collets so just get an ER32 Coller Chuck and range of ER32 collets. You save a little by purchasing a starter set with say 6 commonly used sizes then add to that as needed.

The best way to use these ER collets in your lathe is with a chuck like this as it allows long work to pass right through into the spindle, not something you need to buy straight away.

So with these two chucks the same collets can be used in either machine and also in things like collet blocks, indexers etc. Again not something you need straight away

Any MT3 taper tooling can be held in you MT4 spindle by using an adaptor this is MT4 on teh outside and will have a MT3 taper on the inside.

Thanks for the detailed info, thats really helpful

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

Posted by Journeyman on 08/02/2018 11:33:53:

Posted by Ross Lloyd 1 on 07/02/2018 22:03:19:

• Assuming I get an R8 mill, am I understanding you correctly that if I just buy a collet chuck for the lathe it would still be possible to use the collet set on both mill and lathe? No taper tooling is needed on the lathe (at least at the headstock end) if that is the case?
• Can one use both ER32 and ER25 in an R8 taper (to get the full range of sizes), and do you need two separate lathe chucks?

Ross, I think Jason has answered most of these queries complete with illustrations. You don't need ER 25 and ER32 the ER32 range covers all of the ER25 sizes there are more collets in a full set ER32 has a larger top end size so more useful in the larger mill. Likewise you need only one lathe ER chuck.

ER25 18 collets from 0.5mm to 16mm
ER32 21 collets from 1.5mm to 20mm

It does seem that Warco now only do the WM18 with R8 taper. Just to add more confusion they also offer the GH18 which is a bit cheaper but the same size.

Take it slowly and research a lot!

John

Thanks again! Does that mean that the ER32 does not go below 1.5mm?

[Ross Lloyd 1Participant @rosslloyd1]

I also have a question about the 250 toolpost – with the stock unit, can you adjust the height of the cutting tool without using shim? I have a QCTP specced up with the order, is that going to be much better from the height adjust perspective? I might take it off the order and get something else instead otherwise.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Smallest ER 32 is 2.0mm which has a holding range of 2.00 down to 1.5mm.

Stock 4-way toolpost will need the tools packing to height. It is easier to adjust the tool height with a QCTP but they are not essential to start off with. If you spend a bit of time shimming each tool to height then stick the packing to the tool so you can swap them over quickly after the first effort. You can also leave the most commonly used 2 or 3 tools in the post then just spin it round for which one you want to use and then use the vacant slot for tools that are not used that often.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Ross Lloyd 1 on 12/02/2018 19:10:18:

I also have a question about the 250 toolpost – with the stock unit, can you adjust the height of the cutting tool without using shim?

No, you can't.

What I did soon after receiving my WM250V was take a couple of inches of 1/2×3/8" section BDMS and mill out a 1/4" step. I made a few of these, and another out of 1/8×3/8" aluminium angle for a RDG 5/16" blade partoff tool.

That means that I can use 1/4" square section HSS toolbits, grind the tool form I want with minimal height loss and just slip these tools in and out in use. I can also use some 8mm Glanze carbide insert tools which I've milled off underneath to get them to correct centre height.

It may be that a QCTP might still save me a tiny bit of time, but really I waste very little fiddling about with bits of shim to pack tools up to centre height. I'd rather spend money on project materials, or tools I absolutely have to have, than on what I think of as luxuries.

 

Edited By Mick B1 on 12/02/2018 20:27:35

[martin107Participant @martin107]

Can I also ask a question about the WM250V as I'm thinking about buying one I currently have a ML7 and when I am tapping I knock the belt drive off and spin the chuck by hand to get the tread started can you do that with a WM250V.

Cheers

Martin

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Yes you can.

What I do is turn the chuck with a foot or so of 10mm silver steel round bar, which fits the chuck key hole neatly and doesn’t risk opening it. I can start biggish threads like 1″ BSF that way. No need to disconnect belt drive.

Edited By Mick B1 on 16/02/2018 18:13:32

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

On my non inverter 280 I just put the direction switch into neutral so there is no motor braking and that makes it quite easy to turn the chuck by hand. not sure if the latest inverter ones will do this.

[martin107Participant @martin107]

Many thanks Jason and Mick that helps me a lot, just one last question I'm sure that been asked many times am I mad thinking of swapping a ML7 for a 250v (non inverter)

Martin

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Well, I had a Myford Speed 10 and went to a WM250V, and I’ve no regrets – but your swap might be a little less clear. Even so, I’d think the extra capability looks worthwhile.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Martin, I changed from an old ML7 to a WM250 10 years ago. Still think it was s good move. The ML7 was clapped out and would have cost more to fix than the cost of the new lathe. I ended up with a machine that was just as accurate, probably more so. Could run at higher speed, I could get larger stock through the spindle bore. Came with 2 good chucks and a faceplate and the steadies. All I had for the old one was a very worn 3 jaw. So my vote is for the new Chinese lathe. Shouldn't wear as quickly either with the hardened bed.

John

Edited By Journeyman on 16/02/2018 21:36:25

[martin107Participant @martin107]

Thanks John and Mick, the ML7 is far from clapped out but I just think it is time to move on to a different level, I have only had it since last September (thanks Ian) and I have learnt so much on it coming from how do I switch it on and what does that do to turning out some decent work.

Thanks again

Martin

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

I don’t really think a change of level is what you’ll get. You still won’t have a gearbox with a comprehensive range of feeds and pitches selectable by moving a few levers, like an industrial centre lathe. You’ll have to set up gear trains for screwcutting.

You will get about 3″ more swing and more flexibility in speed control. On my WM250V, the 3-jaw is the best I think I’ve seen, and it means that most jobs can be worked from both ends without faffing about with clocks and 4-jaws. I don’t know that buying a new chuck for my Speed 10 would’ve achieved that.

[Author]

Posts