renew driving licence

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Spurry, my test cost £49 and was all complete in 20 minutes including eyesight.

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Chris, The Dr's appointment cost £128 in Nov 2017. The eyesight test was extra, but not sure what I filed that under in my accounting system.

Pete

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by peak4 on 02/02/2020 01:39:37:

Duncan, I'm not sure exactly which classes exactly are legitimately able to roll over, but that aside, several folks have suggested taking a copy of your licence.
I would add to that; get a certified copy of your licence.
This should be available via a solicitor, or your bank amongst others, at minimal expense, and is likely to hold more weight in court.
The DVLA seem to have "interesting" interpretations of some legislation, allegedly frequently to the detriment of the licence holder.

One of those stories twice removed, so to speak.
Mt friend's wife's ex-teacher sent her licence off for renewal, I think due to an address change, but I'm not sure.
The DVLA claimed they had no record of her having passed a test and refused to send replacement licence.
They said she had to re-take her test.
I'm 63, my mate is a year or so younger, so I guess his wife's ex teacher must be in the order of 80. She couldn't face a new test and thus had to sell her car.

Now I appreciate the argument that older drivers should need to prove their competence, but that really isn't the method which should be used.

Bill

The same thing happened to my late father. He didn't receive his license back after a change of address and when he enquired they had no record of it or him at all. Luckily for him, he still had his old HGV license and even luckier he had previously bought a 3-in-1 printer scanner and the only thing he could think of to test the photocopy function was his license – so he made a copy of it.

After producing those two items he got a new license back with all his previousentitlements. This was back around 2006.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

"What should DVLA have done in this circumstance? They can't assume everyone is honest and just issue a new licence. No-one would ever need to learn to drive if they did that!"

But isn't it the purpose of the DVLA to record all this information? "The computer says – – – -"

Getting a bit fed up of excuses for incompetence, how does a bank justify "allowance" for incorrect accounting?

Regards Ian.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Thanks for all the replies. I toddled off to get a new photo, then found that they can retrieve the one on my passport, so £10 down the pan, never mind, I now have 4 paper copy and electronic copy for future use. I must say that along with many other .gov sites I'm most impressed with how easy it all was, but following advice above I'm not sending back the old licence until I receive the new one.

Thanks again chaps

Edited By duncan webster on 03/02/2020 11:35:32

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Prompted by the mention of Motorcycle entitlement being lost … I finally got around to peeling my photo licence off its letter, and was suitably bemused to discover that the double-sided tape stays firmly attached to the paper; rendering the ‘Change of Address’ panel near-useless.

What planet do these people come from ?

MichaelG.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Can’t say you weren’t given the nod on that one.🙂

not done it yet	01/02/2020 22:14:10
3845 forum posts 15 photos	Duncan, you likely know this – you can use a passport pic, if you have one. It saves getting photos for all sorts of things that need them.

[norm nortonParticipant @normnorton75434]

I see that no one has mentioned towing something and the combined maximum weights being over 3.5 tonne GTW.

Us old boys have rights in our pre-70 licences to pull a big caravan or trailer with boat, etc. behind a large 4X4 or small truck or even a van like a VW Transporter. It is easy to exceed 3.5 tonnes GTW (Gross Train Weight).

As I understand it that permission is lost at age 70 renewal, unless you apply in writing for the new licence with a letter from a doctor stating you are fit to retain that over 3.5tonne licence category.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by norm norton on 04/02/2020 20:13:42:

[…]]

As I understand it that permission is lost at age 70 renewal, unless you apply in writing for the new licence with a letter from a doctor stating you are fit to retain that over 3.5tonne licence category.

.

It’s worth checking here, Norm : **LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

MichaelG.

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Posted by norm norton on 04/02/2020 20:13:42:

Us old boys have rights in our pre-70 licences to pull a big caravan or trailer with boat, etc. behind a large 4X4 or small truck or even a van like a VW Transporter. It is easy to exceed 3.5 tonnes GTW (Gross Train Weight).

As I understand it that permission is lost at age 70 renewal, unless you apply in writing for the new licence with a letter from a doctor stating you are fit to retain that over 3.5tonne licence category.

I think, perhaps, that it why my medical cost so much, compared to Chris E's. Not so much a letter, as a comprehensive booklet.

Still, looking on the bright side, you do not a licence for an electric wheelchair.

Pete

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by not done it yet on 03/02/2020 19:18:14:

Can’t say you weren’t given the nod on that one.🙂

not done it yet	01/02/2020 22:14:10
3845 forum posts 15 photos	Duncan, you likely know this – you can use a passport pic, if you have one. It saves getting photos for all sorts of things that need them.

I'd got the picture by then, no messing about here!

[norm nortonParticipant @normnorton75434]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/02/2020 20:45:42:

It’s worth checking here, Norm : **LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

MichaelG.

Thanks Michael, I thought you were querying or adding some information.

That link is the DVLA description of licence categories. I am referring to categories C1 and C1E that are on my licence, and many others, these having been referred to as the 'big lorry' up to 7.5 tonne MAW category that people may decide is not needed past age 70.

My reason for posting is to warn those who regularly tow something that it is very easy to exceed 3.5 tonne GTW.

What I have not seen published is the fact (?) that these categories are routinely removed at licence renewal at age 70; it must be written somewhere. And how to retain them. I was reporting what others have said to me and would like to see the official text.

Norm

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Norm, if you wade through this link, it should answer your questions. The form D4, is rather large, and expensive to get filled in! The eyesight test is rather involved too.

**LINK**

Pete

[norm nortonParticipant @normnorton75434]

Thank you Pete for finding that. Hmm, looks like you have to pretend you are a lorry driver, and I guess go through the same hoops every three years after 70?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by norm norton on 05/02/2020 09:33:36:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/02/2020 20:45:42:

 

It’s worth checking here, Norm : **LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

MichaelG.

Thanks Michael, I thought you were querying or adding some information.

[…]

What I have not seen published is the fact (?) that these categories are routinely removed at licence renewal at age 70; it must be written somewhere. And how to retain them. I was reporting what others have said to me and would like to see the official text.

Norm

.

Never having had those categories on my Licence, I can’t comment … But I would be inclined to mis-trust such a “fact” unless I saw the official text.

MichaelG.

.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/02/2020 10:46:15

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Norm, I don't think you have to pretend anything. It's just that when we were younger we were allowed particular classes, which are automatically removed when aged 70. The DVLA then make you jump through a load of hoops just to keep what we already had. (And every three years afterwards as well!)

Certainly feels like Age Discrimination to me..

Pete

[Swarf MakerParticipant @swarfmaker85383]

Goes against the requirement for working further into old age as well.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Swarf Maker on 05/02/2020 13:48:22:

Goes against the requirement for working further into old age as well.

I doubt it. As I understand it, the Licence only confirms the driver passed a test that qualified him to drive certain vehicles at the time. Although test requirements have since changed, it's been the practice to let old licences stay valid until the holder needs a new one. That could be because he's been disqualified, or for any other reason the licence has expired, such as at age 70.

Renewal of age expired car licences is straightforward provided the driver is in good health. However, the new license reflects whatever the current rules are. Not unfair because the licence a 70 year old gets is exactly the same as the license issued to everyone else. Arguably it's unfair that older drivers were allowed to retain privileges denied to younger drivers since 1997.

Generally the UK car licence has removed obsolete vehicles like Road Locomotives and dropped the weight a driver is allowed to control on the road. Doesn't effect ordinary motoring, but wanting to driving big boy vehicles is more fuss. There's a smidgen of good news – at least one privilege has been added that older licences don't allow! Since 1/1/1997 the revised car licence allows anyone over 21 to drive a 15kW+ electric tricycle. Wow!!!

More complicated changes are in progress than Driving Licences. If effected, may be worth looking at what's needed to drive in Europe, especially on business. The rules have changed and are likely to do so again this time next year.

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by norm norton on 04/02/2020 20:13:42:

I see that no one has mentioned towing something and the combined maximum weights being over 3.5 tonne GTW.

Us old boys have rights in our pre-70 licences to pull a big caravan or trailer with boat, etc. behind a large 4X4 or small truck or even a van like a VW Transporter. It is easy to exceed 3.5 tonnes GTW (Gross Train Weight).

As I understand it that permission is lost at age 70 renewal, unless you apply in writing for the new licence with a letter from a doctor stating you are fit to retain that over 3.5tonne licence category.

.

Sorry, Norm … I should perhaps clarify:

I thought you were talking about medium-sized vehicles with trailers [as indicated ^^^]

… Which is why I posted the link to categories page, where variations on that theme are described

It seems, from your follow-up, that you are actually protesting about the [potential] loss of licence for C1 and C1E

MichaelG.

.

Perhaps this contains a better explanation of Classes vs Categories

https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories

And [whilst not a site that I would normally visit] this might be the best ‘Plain English’ guidance available:

https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/AdvicePdfs/Datasheet-40.pdf

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/02/2020 19:11:57

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/02/2020 16:58:41:

Renewal of age expired car licences is straightforward provided the driver is in good health. However, the new license reflects whatever the current rules are. Not unfair because the licence a 70 year old gets is exactly the same as the license issued to everyone else. Arguably it's unfair that older drivers were allowed to retain privileges denied to younger drivers since 1997.

Dave, just goes to show that there are two ways (at least) of looking at everything.

Pete

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/02/2020 16:58:41:

Renewal of age expired car licences is straightforward provided the driver is in good health. However, the new license reflects whatever the current rules are. Not unfair because the licence a 70 year old gets is exactly the same as the license issued to everyone else. Arguably it's unfair that older drivers were allowed to retain privileges denied to younger drivers since 1997.

Dave

Hi Dave, I don't see why it is arguable, I passed my test in 1973 and therefore had 23 years with these privileges that you call them, you might as well say that everyone should retake their whole driving test every time they change the categories that people are allowed to have. It's not all bells and whistles though, as my categories D1 and D1E comes with a 101 code and I would have to take an extra test to get it removed, not that I want or have any need to.

Spurry, so do you think those who are not old enough are being age discriminated too then?

Regards Nick.

[norm nortonParticipant @normnorton75434]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 05/02/2020 18:56:58:

And [whilst not a site that I would normally visit] this might be the best ‘Plain English’ guidance available:

**LINK**

 

That is an excellent document, thank you.

To reiterate, if anyone is like me under age 70 (just) and holds a driving licence issued pre-1997, the licence will include categories C1 and C1E(107) which permit that driver to use a vehicle and trailer where the combined GTW is over 3,500kg. I make the point that a number of caravaners and others fall into this group of individuals. C1E(107) differs from C1E in that it downgrades the maximum GTW to 8,250kg.

At licence renewal at age 70 those C1 and C1E(107) categories are lost IF one does it online or at a Post Office WITHOUT additional documents. These are forms D2 and D4, one of which has to be signed off by a doctor, and there will be a fee for this. The forms have to be submitted by post or through a Post Office. The licence has to be renewed every three years and the D2+D4 process repeated.

Edited By norm norton on 06/02/2020 10:45:05

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

New licence turned up today, as expected I've lost lorry and minibus, but everything else still there, needn't have worried as I don't actually want to drive a lorry, and no minibus means I can't be dragged back into driving horrible little scouts around the country!

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Over 70 you only lose C1 and C1E you still get BE which allows you to drive vehicle upto 3.5 tonnes and pull any size trailer upto the maximum weight specified by the vehicle manufacturer.No need for medical

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 05/02/2020 20:56:14:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/02/2020 16:58:41:

Renewal of age expired car licences is straightforward provided the driver is in good health. However, the new license reflects whatever the current rules are. Not unfair because the licence a 70 year old gets is exactly the same as the license issued to everyone else. Arguably it's unfair that older drivers were allowed to retain privileges denied to younger drivers since 1997.

Dave

Hi Dave, …

you might as well say that everyone should retake their whole driving test every time they change the categories that people are allowed to have.

…

Regards Nick.

Yup, that's a possibility. Whenever rules change it might be necessary to revalidate that the people who have to obey them are still competent. Certainly done to me with a Finance qualification – I wasn't allowed to manage a budget until I'd proved I understood the current rules by passing a formal test. One year I was re-tested twice, the b****ds!

There's a reason the licensed weight limits have been dropped – accidents due to drivers losing control. On the other hand, I don't think there's any evidence drivers with retained privileges are a problem, perhaps because the few who use the weight privileges are good drivers.

But my point is, how is it fair that pre-1997 drivers are allowed to do things a new driver isn't, particularly as the current driving test is considerably harder than the one I took and the roads are busier? Looks like an inequality – where's the justice?

I only raised the issue because Pete mentioned Age Discrimination, which I don't think applies. May be best to not mention it – remember when Ladies Pension Age was lifted after a sex-discrimination complaint backfired!

Dave

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