Quality Problems With the Sieg sx2.7

[Nir SomthingParticipant @nirsomthing67828]

Dave, thank you comment this is exactly the point.

"I wonder if there's a misunderstanding about how accuracy is achieved with these hobby tools? It's not done by dialing in dimensions and expecting the cutter to be spot on under all circumstances across the full range of travel. Rather the operator becomes skilled in getting the best out of the machine, allowing for shortcomings rather than expecting them to be eliminated by the manufacturer. Even if the Seig passed all the DTI tests, it's too lightly built to be highly accurate – even monster machines bend slightly when cutting."

We "material engineers" normally speak in microns and below. My press drill (modified) was in the range of 0.1-0.3 mm, and I believed that if I spent x8 more money I don't only get better dedicated quill and rigid column but also improve on the accuracy. According to videos I have seen online they always talk in terms of 0.001" or 0.02 mm so I believed that I will improve my accuracy it 1-2 orders.

In terms of what I want to build, my first project is to finally finish a CNC machine out of Aluminum (or from polypropylene and then cnc the Aluminum). when I built the model, many times I had two different parts with holes and I hoped that they will match but they didn’t, so I always had to choose a few holes and widen them up. I used a DRO and an edge finder and the deviations came from the press drill quill which has an enormous play.

In term of what I want to build after words, this is a difficult question, I build with my imagination and my imagination is limited to the tools that I have. The more possibilities the more Ideas come to mind… Now that I will be able to actually mill many ideas will follow, but at the moment I start from the simple things – will it allow me to make 90 degree edge spot on? Will I be able to get holes on a single plate 500mmx160mm spot on? Will I be able to make face mill surfaces spot on? One project that I had in the past involved making a vacuum chamber, If I had a mill I could have made many parts myself… especially the tunnels for the Teflon strips.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nir Somthing on 29/09/2020 07:21:43:

[…]

In terms of what I want to build, my first project is to finally finish a CNC machine out of Aluminum (or from polypropylene and then cnc the Aluminum). when I built the model, many times I had two different parts with holes and I hoped that they will match but they didn’t, so I always had to choose a few holes and widen them up. I used a DRO and an edge finder and the deviations came from the press drill quill which has an enormous play.

[…]

.

May I suggest a very simple practical test ?

Take two thick strips of of your Aluminium alloy and clamp or glue them face-to-face

Now drill through the pair at two locations

Separate them, and de-burr if necessary

Turn the top strip over, and try passing a couple of close-fitting rods through the assemblage.

If all is well, you can proceed to doing something similar, but with four holes on a square grid.

The two plates should then match in eight pairings [four positions, and two ways up]

If you find any errors … investigate.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Good looking workshop Nir!

Your pillar drill should allow a simple practical demo of what I mean by 'technique'.

The drill's fitted with a milling-style table and vice allowing work to be held rigidly in position, but the combination doesn't deliver accuracy. It's because the pillar drill is designed to push down and isn't rigid side-to-side. In particular the spindle bearings are often sloppy. If when the drill starts cutting the spinning axis is misaligned with the work, the spindle moves and bends the drill slightly and the hole wanders off.

Rather than hold the work rigidly, sloppy pillar drills work better if the job is held loosely enough on the table to float into the spinning axis. My pillar drill (much inferior to yours) works well using old-school methods:

1. Mark the hole position accurately by scribing lines on the job (need to establish a reference point).
2. Centre punch the crossing point, inspect with a magnifier and adjust it's exact position by a second or third sideways punchings intended to drift into centre.
3. Hold the job in a machine vice bolted to the table such that it can't pull up, but slack enough to slide sideways.
4. Put a drill in the chuck and stick a dressmakers pin to the end of the drill with modelling clay, point down. Power up, say 500 rpm. Use a pencil or steel rule to nudge the spinning needle point until it stays centred. It indicates the spindles rotating axis. Power off.
5. Position the job so the needle point is exactly over the centre-punch. (Magnifying glass may help)
6. Remove needle, start drill and feed into the work. As the drill engages with the punched hole, allow the work to move into alignment with the spinning drill if it needs to.

The method relies on a spinning spindle taking up a particular axis, and then aligning the axis with an accurate point on the job. It doesn't depend on the pillar drill being a precision tool because measuring is independent of cutting. Once the drill's cutting it's important to work within the set-up's limits. Applying too much pressure is liable to bend the drill and shift the axis, causing the drill to wander.

The method takes too long in a workshop where time is money. If a lot of accurate holes are to be drilled in a hurry, the professionals go for a better class of drill. because a pillar drill costing £2000 or more is cheap compared with paying a skilled worker to drive it.

My WM18 milling machine is rigid enough to drill holes accurately straight into the job, but I always position the cutter relative to known reference points on the job, and check frequently.

Similar tricks of the trade work in other situations, and there are other opportunities. It's often possible to minimise alignment problems by designing them out. For example, the bolt holes in a commercial pipe flange are deliberately oversized to provide enough wiggle room to take up manufacturing errors. Works for screw fasteners, but not dowels. The latter problem can often be overcome by machining the two parts together; if there's an error, at least they match!

What I'm describing is called 'Fitting'. Rather than making accurately measured parts, the parts themselves are used as gauges to obtain the required fit. For example, rather than boring an axle block to 15.01 + 0.01mm and separately turning the axle to 14.99 – 0.01mm, the block is bored to about 15mm and the axle turned to fit the whatever sized hole is in the block. The approach is good for amateur work, prototypes, one-offs and repairs. Not difficult to get within to 0.02mm ( 0.001" ), but producing parts within close tolerances takes for ever with many rejects.

Interchangeable precision has long replaced fitting in industry. They work to tolerances, so axles and axle blocks can be made separately anywhere in the world from drawings and still fit together. The classic method is to set up a tool-room equipped with calibrated machines and high-end measuring gear where skilled men make highly accurate jigs, fixtures, and gauges. Jigs and fixtures provide shop-floor accuracy, rather than operators, which is confirmed with the gauges and by inspection. This approach is expensive at the outset, but costs drop rapidly when tens of thousands plus identical parts are needed.

I'm getting the impression Nir's requirement is in the awkward gap between fitting and precision manufacturing. If so, I suggest machines like the Seig (good for fitting) are too crude; probably necessary go upmarket. In the UK it's possible to pick up ex-industrial machines at reasonable cost: CNC caused industry and education to dump thousands of manual machines long before they were worn out. Also easy, apart from the high prices, to buy new industrial class milling machines. I don't know what's available in Israel – having to import anything yourself in any country is a always a pain but I'm sure it could be done.

Cost is the main obstacle.

An answer might be to use the Seig to develop prototypes by fitting and once the concept is proved have the finished parts outsourced to a CNC shop working from CAD. The pattern is common enough: designs developed in the West and manufactured abroad.

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 29/09/2020 11:16:05

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Nir also looks as if he has an expensive 3 axis DRO fitted to his pillar drill; I have the same DRO but fitted to a mill/drill, and absolutely love it. Luxury indeed!

But is this DRO inappropriate for a pillar drill? Or over-kill?

If it were me, and such kit expensive in an expensive world like Israel seems to be, that DRO would be fitted to the Stig where perhaps its expertise would be better served.

Just saying!! Merely a suggestion, an observation,

Chris

[Nir SomthingParticipant @nirsomthing67828]

MichaelG, Very cool test, shame I didn’t think about it myself! I will indeed try this one out!

Dave, thank you for your long and interesting post, I might do it out of curiosity once but not on a regular basis anyway I should say that for centering I would really recommend buying one of this:

It is extremely accurate and it never let me down!

I had to opportunity to get an old heavy duty mill from the university for free once and it even still worked, but as I said, If I try to put it in my apartment it will right-away go through the floor of mine and another 5 along the way… Here, living in a private house is only a dream…

For me weight and size is even more of a problem than cost…

ChrisH, Indeed, when I bought the DRO I bought it in parts, so for a change, I didn’t pay any TAX, and it is indeed the expensive one, 1 micron resolution. But I bought it to serve a mill in the future in mind, the press drill is only temporary, I don’t have space so I am supposed to get rid of it and replace it with the Sieg.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 28/09/2020 19:11:19:

Mr Nir Somthing, is there anyone you know personally near your location who can advise you? I say this with the best intentions as there are many people on this forum who could evaluate your machine if they had eyes on it but diagnosing a problem via a forum is nigh on impossible, are there any model engineering clubs near you for example or do you know any mechanically biased co workers? Please don't take this as a negative posting.

Tony

He's mentioned several times that he's in Israel where the hobby is rather thin on the ground.

Neil

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 30/09/2020 17:10:08:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 28/09/2020 19:11:19:

Mr Nir Somthing, is there anyone you know personally near your location who can advise you? I say this with the best intentions as there are many people on this forum who could evaluate your machine if they had eyes on it but diagnosing a problem via a forum is nigh on impossible, are there any model engineering clubs near you for example or do you know any mechanically biased co workers? Please don't take this as a negative posting.

Tony

He's mentioned several times that he's in Israel where the hobby is rather thin on the ground.

Neil

I do realise that he is in Israel, there are a lot of good mechanical engineers there so just a thought.

Tony

[Nir SomthingParticipant @nirsomthing67828]

Ok, so to summaries, after adjusting the gib on all axes, when I lock the y axis I can see the dial moves 0.01mm which is perfect, when I do the same on the x axis the dial moves 0.05mm which is also great. But since on the z axis, as I said, I lowered the gib all the way in, and when I lock the head it moves 0.27 mm and I cannot move the head all the way up – it is obvious that my z column needs machining to make it parallel. So for me, it is easier to adjust the column in the first mill than machine the column. So I decided to call the dealer and ask him to ship back the first mill which I checked without touching the gibs (I pay for shipping) or send a third and I will pay extra. Apparently he is not on my side. He tries to convince me to release the gib so I get full motion in my z axis and have even a bigger of play. By doing so I ignore the purpose of the gib completely! What’s the point of having one if I cannot lock it properly? I understand that many of you think that the z axis is not as important as the x and y axis. But having a gib which is spaced by about 0.3mm (After I move it back up again) is just ridicules! If someone here agree with me – please share your comment so that I can show him that not only I think that way, If you think otherwise please explain way.

Thank You,

Nir

[Nir SomthingParticipant @nirsomthing67828]

BTW, I asked my dealer to ask Sieg if it is possible to pay them up to twice the item price and in return get a proper calibrated mill. He claims this idea is not an option. And that he buy the mills as they are…

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nir Somthing on 01/10/2020 09:03:26:

BTW, I asked my dealer to ask Sieg if it is possible to pay them up to twice the item price and in return get a proper calibrated mill. He claims this idea is not an option. And that he buy the mills as they are…

As far as I know that's true. Seig (and others) make hobby mills. Rather than spend money on deep inspections, they make more and accept a percentage won't be up to scratch. If the customer is unlucky enough to get a dud, it's replaced. In the UK with no quibble, but buying direct from China is risky.

Arc Euro in the UK used to offer a tune up service but stopped because – I think – very few people used it.

No problem buying Far Eastern machine tools for the professional market, but I've yet to hear of a hobbyist who's bought one! Price on Application generally like Chester, but Buck and Hickman are more open. Their web page covers both hobby and professional machines, prices ranging from £495 to £38,556 (plus tax and shipping.) I think you should be looking to spend at least £5000, maybe much more. Watch the weight, precision machines tend to be heavy!

I don't know of any Western manual mills still in production; apart from hobbyists, buyers have long shifted to CNC.

Doesn't help I know, sorry. I think you've been unlucky to get a couple of iffy machines, whilst also having a high-end requirement and local difficulties. One way out is to throw money at getting a better machine; another is to work with what you have. What does your supplier suggest? Maybe he's picked up a bad batch*, and should be sorting it out with his supplier, maybe a third machine would be good enough.

Dave

* something a little suspicious about the repairs, rust, and paint job on machines that don't measure well either? Could be Seig messed up, could be they're private enterprise – someone doing up factory rejects. Don't know.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Nir,

I would like to suggest that you look at this video from Blondiehacks. If you don't have access to an experienced 'practical' machine tool fitter, this is a good video to see, if you decide to keep the machine.

If you are having issues with the Z axis, again, a 'practical' machine tool fitter can guide you. To beat your distributor with speculative discussion on here is wrong as it is difficult to make a clear judgement for your distributor or you.

If there really is a problem with the Z axis, there are ways of dealing with it, but without physically seeing the machine in front of you – all guidance is just speculation. There are checks I can suggest, but I would only do so if and when I feel it is appropriate. This would be the wrong time for me to get into a discussion on the subject, because again, I would be just speculating.

Machines are calibrated before they get into the packing case. From then on, ALL machines are subjected to changes in temperature in transit, combined with shake, rattle and roll, until you put the machine in its final resting place in your apartment…. there after, the machine needs to settle in its final place of operation for at last a month, before you decide to do any major adjustments to meet your specific requirements. This is a general purpose – general use light weight/light duty hobby mill. It is not a heavy weight, heavy duty industrial machine, nor is it a tool room machine specification.

So, even after the 'light weight' machine is calibrated before it left the assembly table, you will be extremely lucky if it remains the same by the time you instal it. There is less adjustment to be made with machines which have a heavier casting, smaller table, along with some other factors.

Jason and many others have the same machine, supplied through respective SIEG distributor channels around the world. They are all working as needed, be it with or without adjustments, to meet the users requirements. Where they fail to meet the users expectations, they are simply returned for a refund, after discussion and mutual agreement with the reputable supplier.

I respect your enthusiasm. However, to carry out some of the adjustments to meet your specific requirements requires experience with skills gained over decades. If you decide to keep the machine, I would suggest you use it, let it settle in its final place of operation, and only consider to make very small adjustments over time, as your skills develop. Although I have given you the link to the Blondiehacks video, I would suggest you consider certain bits of it, slowly over time, as your machine starts to settle, and as your skills develop.

If you continue to approach this matter in the manner you are – with speed, it could turn out to be a problem as the machine settles over time.

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 01/10/2020 11:09:05:

Posted by Nir Somthing on 01/10/2020 09:03:26:

BTW, I asked my dealer to ask Sieg if it is possible to pay them up to twice the item price and in return get a proper calibrated mill. He claims this idea is not an option. And that he buy the mills as they are…

As far as I know that's true. Seig (and others) make hobby mills. Rather than spend money on deep inspections, they make more and accept a percentage won't be up to scratch. If the customer is unlucky enough to get a dud, it's replaced. In the UK with no quibble, but buying direct from China is risky.

Arc Euro in the UK used to offer a tune up service but stopped because – I think – very few people used it.

No problem buying Far Eastern machine tools for the professional market, but I've yet to hear of a hobbyist who's bought one! Price on Application generally like Chester, but Buck and Hickman are more open. Their web page covers both hobby and professional machines, prices ranging from £495 to £38,556 (plus tax and shipping.) I think you should be looking to spend at least £5000, maybe much more. Watch the weight, precision machines tend to be heavy!

I don't know of any Western manual mills still in production; apart from hobbyists, buyers have long shifted to CNC.

Doesn't help I know, sorry. I think you've been unlucky to get a couple of iffy machines, whilst also having a high-end requirement and local difficulties. One way out is to throw money at getting a better machine; another is to work with what you have. What does your supplier suggest? Maybe he's picked up a bad batch*, and should be sorting it out with his supplier, maybe a third machine would be good enough.

Dave

* something a little suspicious about the repairs, rust, and paint job on machines that don't measure well either? Could be Seig messed up, could be they're private enterprise – someone doing up factory rejects. Don't know

Just for clarification Dave…

• There is a direct relationship between calibration, inspection, and what the end user is prepared to pay. Living in Europe and USA, our markets are extremely competitive, and that is reflected in the price. Israel seems to be another matter.
• Arc used to offer a tune up service. Demand was good, but noise from competitors about this service which we offered was negative. Sales doubled after we stopped offering the service!
• For hobby machines, Buck and Hickman, Cromwell, Zoro, Granger, MSC, are extremely wealthy companies, but less geared to assist in comparison to Chester. Still, they are a great channel for sales, for those who wish to use them.
• If Nir wants a Western/near Western offering, he can always consider a new EMCO, followed by a WABECO.
• Nir may or may not be unlucky with the machine he has. There may or may not be a problem. Here speculation takes over. The rust/paint touch up are cosmetic – easily fixed by discussion between Nir and his supplier.
• Knowing SIEG, the probability of a bad batch in terms of inspection before they left the factory are low. What happens in transit is another matter. As I mentioned before, there was an issue with the paint on some of the SX3.5DZP machines in a particular batch ARC received, but that was dealt with.

At the end of the day, this really is a conversation to be had between Nir and his supplier.

Ketan at ARC.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Nir Somthing on 01/10/2020 09:03:26:

BTW, I asked my dealer to ask Sieg if it is possible to pay them up to twice the item price and in return get a proper calibrated mill. He claims this idea is not an option. And that he buy the mills as they are…

I suspect that most manufacturers would be cautious of precision calibrating a machine then shipping it half-way around the world in a crate with no control over the conditions for the final installation.

Even just the temperature cycling and vibration involved in transport can be enough to put a machine out of adjustment.

Neil

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I don't understand the logic of this argument.

How did Colchester, Harrison and all the other machine tool manufacturers manage to export their machines abroad without them losing precision

Martin.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They charged more for them and made them more substantial. A new M300 will set you back about £27,000 today yet you can get a similar size import for £3,000, something has to give. They probably also sent a man to commission the new machine but that costs money too. People seem to be under the illusion that if they pay 1/10th the price they will still get the top spec product or simply don't know what sort of spec machine they need to make the things they want.

We also don't know what spec the machine was at before Nir pulled the gibs out, not saying it is causing the problem but can't comment on the delivered machine as it's not in it's delivered state

 

 

Edited By JasonB on 01/10/2020 17:15:18

[Nir SomthingParticipant @nirsomthing67828]

Dave, Thank you for your kind words, as I said weight is the problem for me, more than price. And for the moment it seems that the supplier will tell me anything just to get rid of me…

Ketan Swali, I already saw all Blondiehacks videos on youtube she is awesome! However her results look too good and are one of the reasons I expected much more accuracy from this machine. Most Chinese mini mills have a head that is connected to a rotating face connected in turn to the column. In such configurations you can adjust both the base and the head. And this is exactly why I tried to stay away from them. I believed that 0.02mm is what to be expected from a machine like that (at the beginning). And I wanted a fix head so it will not move with time by vibrations. Now I know that this was a dream. So in principle it would have been easier to have this option to play with the head.

My main point is that now, after inspecting two machines. I realize that the machine comes accurate within only 0.1/2 mm which is in my believe – terrible. I can deal with a head that is not normal to the table, by adjusting the column base. However the fact that the second mill column is not parallel is a major problem that can be solved only by disassembling and machining and so on…

Before I bought this mill I told my supplier I had ~0.5 mm deviations in my old setup. He told me I would not have any problems like that in the future and that I should expect to see at least one order of accuracy above what I have. But this is not correct. Being able to mill is nice, but I never really bought it for that purpose. I needed accurate positioning of holes. Using my DRO I can generate a set of coordinates. Then I can just cut my material with a band saw and sand it a little and make holes. I didn't dream of paying so much money for the same order of accuracy.

Ketan Swali, this WABECO is looking very promising, I accidently have one of their drill stands from my grand father and it is very old J at least I thinks it is theirs. But 7,000 plus shipping plus TAX is a big no go. I am a Hobbyist I don’t earn money from this.

Neil, if this is truly a fact that temperature can affect the accuracy so much. (I know it would in the order of tens of microns but not more than that). Then why are they not using a smarter assembly? As I said, If I had an extra flat surface between the head and the column – all I had to do is measure alignment – then insert a shim – recheck and so on – problem solved. And the argument about a play is not relevant – for that you take a heavy duty mill.

Martin, I completely agree.

JasonB, taking the gibs out has zero effect on the accuracy whatsoever. The gib is simple their to match between two flat surfaces, It is meant to be used as a bearing surface. And in the case of wear one can tight it up to get better movement and less play. In the first mill I didn’t touched the gibs and I had 0.4mm difference between left to right across the entire table. And I presume it is because of the table own weight on the right side and the fact that the gib was loose. The gib is not a calibration means. I never known that I need to pay so much for accuracy – here my lake of experience come into play, I saw on YouTube people showing accuracy of 0.01/2 mm on cheap Chinese mini mills and believed it to be standard.

Boy, I thought having this toy in my collection will make my life easier…

Nir

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by blowlamp on 01/10/2020 17:00:13:

I don't understand the logic of this argument.

How did Colchester, Harrison and all the other machine tool manufacturers manage to export their machines abroad without them losing precision

Martin.

Hi Martin,

There is no logic to argue, but I really don't expect a person with your level of compitance to understand.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:10:49

Edited By Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:11:12

[Nir SomthingParticipant @nirsomthing67828]

Fun fact, the WABECO F1210 is almost identical to the Sieg SX2.7L in any term. Weight less by 10 kg and yet manages to come to your door at an accuracy of 0.01mm. In my opinion, there is not much of a relation to changes in temperature and much more of a relation to simply – price.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Exactly, and why I said on the first page that if you feel you need that accuracy then you will have to pay for it however many people seem to turn out good work on these cheaper machines, why not try drilling some holes as has been suggested and see how they come out before sending it back.

Edited By JasonB on 01/10/2020 18:21:57

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Nir,

You obviously know what you want, and this machine fails to meet your expectations. So perhaps you may want to call it a day. You have explored all the comments on here, and chosen what you wish to believe. Perhaps it is time for you to return the machine to the supplier and get a refund.

I really do not think you will find a solution to meet your expectations.

Ketan at ARC.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by JasonB on 01/10/2020 17:11:22:

They charged more for them and made them more substantial. A new M300 will set you back about £27,000 today yet you can get a similar size import for £3,000, something has to give. They probably also sent a man to commission the new machine but that costs money too. People seem to be under the illusion that if they pay 1/10th the price they will still get the top spec product or simply don't know what sort of spec machine they need to make the things they want.

We also don't know what spec the machine was at before Nir pulled the gibs out, not saying it is causing the problem but can't comment on the delivered machine as it's not in it's delivered state

Edited By JasonB on 01/10/2020 17:15:18

I worked for several years at a Machine Tool Agency who sold machine tools from the world to UK buyers and when a machine was sold to the customer, he wasn't allowed to de crate the machine that was down to us the suppliers engineers, all the customer did was make sure the foundations etc, if required were in place and the first time the customer was allowed to touch the machine was when we had got the machine set to the manufacturers specs and produced what ever the machine was to be used for. The company sold equipment from Pillar drills to machine tools used in manufacturing.

Martin P

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:06:45:

Posted by blowlamp on 01/10/2020 17:00:13:

I don't understand the logic of this argument.

How did Colchester, Harrison and all the other machine tool manufacturers manage to export their machines abroad without them losing precision

Martin.

Hi Martin,

There is no logic to argue, but I really don't expect a person with your level of compitance to understand.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:10:49

Edited By Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:11:12

Hi Ketan.

Is this meant as a joke or an insult?

Martin.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by blowlamp on 01/10/2020 17:00:13:

I don't understand the logic of this argument.

How did Colchester, Harrison and all the other machine tool manufacturers manage to export their machines abroad without them losing precision

I doubt that anyone buying even a small industrial machine would expect to break it out of its crate, bung it on a stand, and expect it to perform to the very highest limit of the specifications. Instead they would have followed the manufacturer's installation procedure and subsequent fettling.

How many articles have ME etc published on levelling your new Myford?

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by blowlamp on 01/10/2020 19:33:26:

Posted by Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:06:45:

Posted by blowlamp on 01/10/2020 17:00:13:

I don't understand the logic of this argument.

How did Colchester, Harrison and all the other machine tool manufacturers manage to export their machines abroad without them losing precision

Martin.

Hi Martin,

There is no logic to argue, but I really don't expect a person with your level of compitance to understand.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:10:49

Edited By Ketan Swali on 01/10/2020 18:11:12

Hi Ketan.

Is this meant as a joke or an insult?

Martin.

Hi Martin,

How can I ever insult you? We have known each other for over 10 years now

Ketan at ARC

[Nir SomthingParticipant @nirsomthing67828]

Posted by Nir Somthing on 01/10/2020 18:17:16:

Fun fact, the WABECO F1210 is almost identical to the Sieg SX2.7L in any term. Weight less by 10 kg and yet manages to come to your door at an accuracy of 0.01mm. In my opinion, there is not much of a relation to changes in temperature and much more of a relation to simply – price.

I must correct myself. WABECO sends with the table a test report. and the accuracy is considered good when below 0.05 mm on a certain length (200 – 300 mm depending on the test), not 0.01 mm this is only promised to the spindle on the German site (.de). (On the international site (.com) they also promise it to the table flatness but if you look at the test report you know that it is not correct (for F1200 & F1210)). So based on my results lets say that the Sieg is accurate in the order of 0.2 mm. You get only 4 time more precision and you pay 3 times over. And you get a standard motor – not brushless. So I think it is smarter to stay with the Sieg since I already bought it, and maybe JasonB is correct. Maybe using a DRO in a single plane – most of the time – will be all what I need. (Plus the Sieg looks cooler

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