Problems with newly purchased indexable tip cutting tools.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I am not getting a good finish.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I have purchased these indexable tip cutting tools from India.

**LINK**

The LH cutting tool had a stripped thread and they will be sending me another. I tried to machine some brass today to see how they went. Other than my small boring bar, this is my first use of indexable tip tools. I can get an excellent finish when taking a facing cut but turning a diameter is no good. The finish is quite rough and nowhere near acceptable.I know I have the correct tool height as there is no pip left when taking a facing cut.

Any suggestions as to what the problem might be ? I have tried various speeds and using auto feed and also taking the tool height up and down 1mm….all no good.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

You most likely have the wrong inserts for cutting brass. A lot of carbide inserts are not sharp like a ground hss, but are often very blunt/ dull. This is intentional as the tool relies on high surface speed to plasticise the material and induce chipping and very high metal removal rates. For home machines, like on my myford, I use the positive geometry and often coated inserts. These are sharp like a hss tool. They will give a very good finish on a variety of materials and don't need a lot of power to be cutting effectively. I like the Korloy from Korea and also the Kyocera from Japan. They make very high quality inserts and between them, make a selection for everything. The Kyocera ceramic inserts are fantastic for turning hard materials.

Neil

[VicParticipant @vic]

Difficult to say but I've had no problems with decent tooling from well known suppliers. I use these folks in the uk.

**LINK**

**LINK**

Edited By Vic on 29/07/2016 10:09:49

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Those are CCMT inserts and really meant for steel. You can use silver coloured CCGT tips for brass and bronze.

Both these styles of tip work well with a mini lathe, they should give reasonable results with your lathe. use dead on centre height and run the machine three times as fast as you would with HSS.

Neil

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Is the number the same but just change the letter prefix  ie. CCGT 060204 ? 

I think this is them :

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/carbide-inserts-for-turning-uni-tip/ccgt-060204-alu-ak10-carbide-inserts-for-turning-ground-and-polished-for-aluminium-uni-tip.html

 

Edited By Brian John on 29/07/2016 11:47:47

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Vic on 29/07/2016 10:09:25:

Difficult to say but I've had no problems with decent tooling from well known suppliers. I use these folks in the uk.

**LINK**

**LINK**

Edited By Vic on 29/07/2016 10:09:49

Following advice from this forum about that supplier I visited their stand at Doncaster. They spent ages explaining tip technology, writing down notes on what to order next time & i came away spending far more than I intended. However, it was money well spent

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Number=size. people measure them in different ways so order by part number.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I can't really see the geometry from the link but I have a different style of finishing tip and on a mini lathe the depth of cut makes a big difference to the finish. 1mm DEEP is fine but much beyond that and vibrations can set it. As Neil mentioned higher speed may help – oddly also an increased feed rate.

The tips I am using have a lot of positive rake and I suspect it's down to that. I have used different coatings on them and all have been ok on brass, steel and aluminium, until coating wear spoils things.

John

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[Anonymous]

In my experience CCMT inserts work fine with both brass and bronze. My limited experience of Indian tooling (Glanze boring bars) is that the toolholders are fine, but the supplied inserts were poor quality and were binned.

Andrew

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

https://www.kyocera-unimerco.co.uk/Kyocera/metal/turning-tools/turning-inserts/cc/UpdateFacets/

This is the UK site, The inserts I use are these, Kyocera CCGT060202MP-CK PR1425

Product code TKD01307 PR1425

A better picture is here,

https://www.kyocera-unimerco.co.uk/kyocera/metal/turning-tools/turning-inserts/cc/tkd01307/

Strictly speaking, these are a stainless steel grade insert. I used these inserts for cutting the modified outer bearing races to make my home made Magneto style bearing.They are not real cheap, but unbelievably good. You get a very good surface finish with hard steels, P20 type steels, and mild steels, as well as Aluminium alloys and brass, bronze and copper. I don't run my lathe any faster than the top pulley on the low selection, about 700 rpm or so. Run at a feed rate at between the lowest on the feed box to 6 thou per rev, or just by feel. Mostly I turn by feel and look at the chips coming off. For depths of cut, it will easily cut 0.5 to 1.0 mm 1mm to 2mm on diameter. I have not tried taking a 3mm diameter cut, but the packet says up to 3mm on diameter.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Brian, if you want to go for the ones from APT then I would go with the smaller tip radius of 0.2mm – these also if you go to their model engineering section you can buy them in twos These are what I'm using at the moment on Ali, brass, bronze and the odd finishing cut on small steel and stainless parts.

As Andrew says the Glanze far eastern holders seem fine with a half decent tip

 

 

 

While we are talking holders and tips members of the forum may be interested in this item which looks to be a universal holder

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 29/07/2016 12:40:41

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I generally get my tips from this range. Micro polished in particular.

**LINK**

I did buy coated finishing tips for stainless initially but aluminium soon removes the coating. I don't think that the geometry of the micro polished ones is significantly different.

For deep cuts in normal materials I feel that HSS still has the edge as it can be ground in a way that allows a lot of metal removal via deep cuts on smaller lathes.

John

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[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Looking at Jasons link the toolholder shown allows you to use the normally unused corners from CC** inserts. I have one made by Kennametal, they are fine for straight turning but not for turning to a square shoulder. they will give a shoulder of 50° The ISO code is SCMC available in N L or R .[ the Lor R style might allow turning to a square corner , Iv'e never thought about it.].

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Look again Raymond, it shows a DCMT tip in a CCMT or SCMT shaped recess

I do have a holder that used the spare two corners of a CC** tip that leaves a 75" shoulder an SCRCR that is better for turning and have seen facing holders that do the same. There is also a good video showing the making of a holder that will use these same two corners for facing and giving a 45deg chamfer

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hi Jason, Yes, I did notice the DC**insert, surely he does not advocate using a DC in a recess for a CC or SC.[ that must be a mistake in his setting up for the photo ]. I did make a holder that uses all the corners of a SC** insert that gives me a 45° chamfer.

cheers.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Brian, there is a place in town that sell inserts, Cica Spares on Little Spence St down Portsmith way. He might be able to set you up with some good quality inserts. The Indian inserts have a poor reputation as has been mentioned above. Or if buying inserts off the net, try to get Sumitomo or Kyocera, Mitsubishi or Sandvik or similar brands. I found cheap no-name inserts to be pretty useless.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Cica Spares : okay, thank you for that. I will try them on Monday. I can use the current tips for roughing out or cast iron flywheels.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Jason – just had a look at the universal holder, the tip in the add clearly doesn't fir the holder, or is this something new?

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

It must be a mistake, He does state in the ad CCMT You would have thought that they would have at least taken the pic with the correct insert.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thats why I put a at the end of my link, definately does not fit.

I did ask Ketan if he was going to stock them but he declined, something about only bodgers would use something like that

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hi Jason. Scrolled down to the bottom of the ad and he is showing a dcmt [with dimensions !!] next to the holder for cc, very strange that one .

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Some botched up picture of a tip that is not designed to fit the holder shown… SCMC holder + DC** tip… I don't think so… unknown brand … & look at the price… warning bells chaps

George.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 29/07/2016 13:38:37:

Look again Raymond, it shows a DCMT tip in a CCMT or SCMT shaped recess

Agh!

Even I wouldn't do that…

Neil

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

What is the difference between CCGT 060202 and CCGT 060204 ? Which is better for brass ?

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