Model engineers – enlisted in war efforts?

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I've located the ME issue with the stirrup pump instructions (Vol 83, iss 2049 , Aug 1940). In his editorial the editor says "…There is still a shortage of stirrup pumps in the country, and any model engineers who have not yet obtained any munitions work to do (my italics), may render valuable national service in devoting spare time to pump production…"

Cheers,

Rod

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Interesting, Roderick. It sounds as though ME's doing munitions work was almost ubiquitous. Wow. Talk about unsung heroes.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Both of my Grandad's saw active service, one was an anti-aircraft gunner in the navy and the other was at El Alamein, so they would have been very grateful for the guys back home producing parts. One of them had a very old treadle lathe but even by WW2 it would have been obsolete I think it was 1900's. If he hadn't been drafted he might very well have been a producer of parts as he had the skill for it.

One of my lathes was bought new in 1943 by the US army Ordnance Corps and that is certainly home shop sized so could well have been used in a home shop on munitions work. Whether it was initially used in the States or send straight over on Lend Lease I could not say.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 03/01/2019 11:07:53:

I've located the ME issue with the stirrup pump instructions (Vol 83, iss 2049 , Aug 1940). In his editorial the editor says "…There is still a shortage of stirrup pumps in the country, and any model engineers who have not yet obtained any munitions work to do (my italics), may render valuable national service in devoting spare time to pump production…"

Cheers,

Rod

I don't think that means much. Obviously people wanted to be useful, and the idea of making parts for the war effort is patriotic. Despite the editor banging the drum I don't believe much was done directly in support of the war effort in home workshops. There were plenty of other opportunities for people to 'do their bit'. Fit men were wanted for the Armed Services, Mining, Steel, Shipbuilding and other heavy work. From the rest, (over and underage, unfit, reserved occupations etc.) the Home Guard took 1.5M Men from the civilian population. ARP employed another 1.5M volunteers, including women. There were several other heavy consumers of volunteer effort, and of course industry needed all the labour it could get. Model Engineers 'who have not found munitions work yet' most probably found other employment. On the other hand, owning a lathe during the war would have been highly valuable. Spare parts were in very short supply and 'make and mend' was essential.

The contribution of women was much larger than anything that could have been achieved by a few Model Engineers working at home in their spare time. In the UK 90% of single women and 80% of married women were directed to war work, quite a lot of them working machine tools.

As Robert mentioned Amateur Radio was exploited thoroughly. It's the only home hobby activity I know to have been used on a large scale. At that time most military, spy and diplomatic traffic was sent in morse code. Elaborate efforts were made to intercept, analyse and decipher it. As it's difficult to become proficient in morse code there was always a shortage of good operators. In addition to using the people, it was also an advantage to have receivers scattered around the UK as a way of improving reception and coverage.

The Y-Service was and perhaps still is the most secret and effective of all the intelligence organisations.

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 03/01/2019 08:46:20:

ET Westbury's name seems to come up in association with war work quite frequently. Not sure if it was his day job or at home at night etc. Maybe both?

Westbury was in the Navy during the Great War, then became an RAF instructor.

In his mid-late forties by WW2 when he worked on the generator sets (and presumably other things).

Neil

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Posted by Ian S C on 03/01/2019 09:16:20:

One of the engineering instructors at the NAC(New Zealand National Airways Corperation) engineering school told us of model engineers in UK using their lathes at home to lap in the crankshafts for RR Merlin engines

Wow!! Must have had huge lathes, the Merlin 61 was 2.25 metres long…

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Noting the high number of shells which failed [and are still being dug up to-day],home workshop production would have had very little real value. The serious work was/still is done in factories.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

During a visit to New Milton, George Thomas related to me how he was charged with the dismantling of a pair of 3D imagining machines used to interpret and take measurements on aerial photographs. The machines had been made in Germany and were installed by the companies engineers before the War. Of course this location was known to the enemy and no doubt a prime target, so the removal to a safe location was paramount.

He told me of his astonishment when he removed the spherical dot used in the view finder. This dot was suspended on two wires. The diameter of the dot was 0.001" and there were no spares available. He was greatly relieved when the machines were back together and working correctly at the new location.

Regards

Gray,

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I seem to remember in a book on the SOE reading that they employed various artisans to make complex timers and guidance systems for secret weapons in a house somewhere, but annoyingly my memory has deserted me as to the book.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Jon Lawes on 03/01/2019 19:51:26:

I seem to remember in a book on the SOE reading that they employed various artisans to make complex timers and guidance systems for secret weapons in a house somewhere, but annoyingly my memory has deserted me as to the book.

Winston Churchill's Toyshop?

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

My friend's father in law, was an engineer (Certainly, post war he sold/maintained/repaired Motorcycles and scooters)

His workshop was in the cellar, and apparently he made instrument parts for he military.

Between us, we still have some of the kit that he used, Good quality stuff!

Howard.

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I had an old mentor in model engineering who in ww2 worked on the railways as a fitter but he had a B type Drummond which he bought new in 1920,On this tool he designed a prototype search light.He noticed that when a search light lost the plane they seldom could get back on it.His design was that his model created a zig zag of light giving a better chance of lighting the plane.He used a scotch crank to achieve this.Nothing became of the idea as the need declined as the war progressed.I had this model when he died but I eventualy threw it out as I didn't think anyone would know what it waswhen they clean out my workshop,I regret it now as it was a clever piece of work.

Frank

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 03/01/2019 20:14:52:

Posted by Jon Lawes on 03/01/2019 19:51:26:

I seem to remember in a book on the SOE reading that they employed various artisans to make complex timers and guidance systems for secret weapons in a house somewhere, but annoyingly my memory has deserted me as to the book.

Winston Churchill's Toyshop?

Churchill's Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare ?

[cParticipant @c]

In July 1915 ME reports the formation of The Amateur Ordnance Volunteer Association by the Rev. W.W.Pitchford of Lamport Rectory near Northampton. This organisation receives almost issue by issue mentions up to April 1917. This last article shows it to have had many branches in the country, and mentions Percival Marshall as being on the Finance Committee. It reports the supply of 5,000 fuse sockets and 47,500 fuse screws weekly just for Munitions Ministry, with smaller amounts for private firms.

WW2 does not seem to have been catered for in the same way, but, in addition to Roderick's stirrup pump, a gun tripod for use by the Home Guard was in the February 1941 issue. The Sten Carbine was described in January 1943 with ways to improve it in June of the same year.

Chris.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by John Haine on 03/01/2019 17:03:41:

Posted by Ian S C on 03/01/2019 09:16:20:

One of the engineering instructors at the NAC(New Zealand National Airways Corperation) engineering school told us of model engineers in UK using their lathes at home to lap in the crankshafts for RR Merlin engines

Wow!! Must have had huge lathes, the Merlin 61 was 2.25 metres long…

The cranks might have been stationary or mounted on horses, the lathe used to make the laps and the journals lapped by hand or even belt-driven off the lathe. It does seem unlikely though.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

In Smoke Rings, Model Engineer, 6 July 1990. Neil Hemingway wrote an obituary on GHT. It transpires George also had a hand in producing Oxygen from a supplied chemical, for use by sub mariners. The text says there was some urgency for the design and not long after the Tirpitz was sunk. George often wondered if those who had laid the mines breathed "his" oxygen. Something I suspect we will never know.

Regards

Gray,

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The actual crankshaft was only 41,2 inches long, there is a heck of a lot of engine hung on each end.

Ian S C

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Just noticed this posted on the Myford Yahoo group. It seems that war production was an extensive topic in ME mag.

Between 25th September 1941 & 3rd September 1942, Edgar Westbury wrote an extensive article in tooling up the capstan Lathe for those who were supporting the war effort producing components in their home workshops.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 31/01/2019 10:03:10:

tooling up the capstan Lathe for those who were supporting the war effort producing components in their home workshops.

"Sorry Luv, I had to spend the kitty on new tooling for my workshop – there's a war on you know!"

Neil

[Alan Johnson 7Participant @alanjohnson7]

In World War 1, rifles – Rifle No.1 Mk III (Short Magazined Lee Endfield Mark 3 – in 303 calibre) were made (in the UK) at Enfield Lock, British Small Arms (BSA), London Small Arms (LSA), and also in a scheme known as the "Peddler Scheme." These were rifles assembled by a "central" group who assembled them from parts made by small sub-contractors. Not many were made – 20,000 perhaps. This information came from Ian Skenerton's "The Enfield Story." I have never seen one – but I am in Australia, so the chances are poor, especially 100 years later! Enfield, BSA and LSA rifles are relatively common. Skenerton does not elaborate as to who were the "sub-contractors" were, but they must have been small concerns – even Model Engineers at home perhaps). Poor tolerance was a "feature" of these rifles!

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Only tangentially relevant, but I recently discovered this magazine article pasted into my grandfather's daybook for 1915. I've no idea what magazine it was, but obviously war-work production was prominent in people's minds.

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