Lathe turning tools

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Ah, now theres the rub. Eclipse make a set, but at over £130 odd plus vat I can't say that I would go that route. For considerably less than that you can buy a couple of sticks of HSS and a bench grinder, that plus a few hours in the land of Youtubia, will get you on the right track. Some may contradict me but even a cheap grinder from Wickes for 40 quid would get you started. Granted the wheels could usefully be changed for AlOx, which is better suited to HSS, and you might find the work rest is a little flimsy and could be removed and replaced with something a bit more rigid and hopefully adjustable.

Much as we would all like it, there are very few quick fixes on the path to learning. Think of the sense of achievement you will get when you grind your own and find it works.

chriStephens

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by chris stephens on 10/04/2013 18:28:00:

Ah, now theres the rub. Eclipse make a set, but at over £130 odd plus vat I can't say that I would go that route. For considerably less than that you can buy a couple of sticks of HSS and a bench grinder, that plus a few hours in the land of Youtubia, will get you on the right track. Some may contradict me but even a cheap grinder from Wickes for 40 quid would get you started. Granted the wheels could usefully be changed for AlOx, which is better suited to HSS, and you might find the work rest is a little flimsy and could be removed and replaced with something a bit more rigid and hopefully adjustable.

Agreed. What's more, out of a set of eight or so ready made tools how many will you actually use? Two or three? The rest are just a waste of money.

You will need to buy a grinder to resharpen them anyway so just buy a few bits of HSS and grind them yourself. As said before I would use 1/4 which are easier to grind. Keep the overhang short and you are unlikely to have problems. If you need something more substantial later it will be easier as you will have already learned how to grind them!

Russell.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

OK, I have ordered a peice or 1/4 x 3" long and 3/8 x 3" long tool steel from RDG. Nothing ventured

Just need to have a look at some UTube vids

[Chris ParsonsParticipant @chrisparsons64193]

As a raw beginner (started Dec 2012) I would agree with the sense of achievement from grinding your own…

I started with two sets of Glanze indexable tools, which are great but not cheap (overall cost in excess of 200 pounds)

After chipping a few tips I found a (new) grinder for 25 quid at a jumble and bought some 10mm square tool blanks for 2 quid each from Tracy Tools and after a bit of perseverance now have two excellent finishing and grooving tools – it is true you need to stone them regularly to keep their edge but the finish is pretty good I think for my inexperience! (also gives you the confidence to experiment with your own special angles – I ground one tool down to allow me to turn a narrow shaft and not catch the centre by increasing the angle of the tool at the 'back'

A new carbide tip produces a nice finish but skimming this with a sharp HSS tool is even better IMHO

And the warm fuzzy feeling when you look at the finish and think 'I made that' is priceless

Chris

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi

I've just picked up this thread and see your post ….

You say:-

"So would a set like this be a good start

http://www.warco.co.uk/high-speed-steel-tool-bits/302779-8-piece-set-high-speed-steel-ground-tools.html "

…….and note some disparaging replys to this course of action!

OK so from experience. I have a set of these bought on a whim an exhibition or so ago !

What you get is a set of tools all ground correctly and of GOOD quality ( why do folk make derogatory comments without experiencing the product ?) If you are new to this game buying such a set, ground correctly, means that you can start work at once and just touch up the edges when required with your oil stone or bench grinder. These tool bits will last you a LONG time – I don't think I've ever worn out a tool bit! The down side is that you might not have an immediate use for all the tools in the set. Over time you will find that you accumulate lots of "special" bits which you will make or modify from HSS blanks for use on particular jobs. I agree with the advice given to buy a blank too and practice grinding your own!

Good luck!

Norman

 

 

 

 

Edited By NJH on 11/04/2013 10:40:59

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by NJH on 11/04/2013 10:35:15:

Hi

I've just picked up this thread and see your post ….

You say:-

"So would a set like this be a good start

http://www.warco.co.uk/high-speed-steel-tool-bits/302779-8-piece-set-high-speed-steel-ground-tools.html "

…….and note some disparaging replys to this course!

OK so from experience. I have a set of these bought on a whim an exhibition or so agoI

What you get is a set of tools all ground correctly and of GOOD quality ( why do folk make derogatory comments without experiencing the product ?) If you are new to this game buying such a set, ground correctly, means that you can start work at once and just touch up the edges as required with your oil stone or bench grinder. These tool bits will last you a LONG time – I don't think I've ever worn out a tool bit! The down side is that you might not have an immediate use for all the tools in the set. Over time you will find that you accumulate lots of "special" bits which you will make or modify from HSS blanks for use on particular jobs. I agree with the advice given to buy a blank too and practice grinding your own!

Good luck!

Norman

 

Thanks Norman, an excelent post and good to get your views as you already have them. I intend to buy some anyway but have also purchaced some blanls to play with.

PS: Love your workshop

Edited By petro1head on 11/04/2013 10:41:07

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Yep

The purchase of those blanks will not be wasted! Like chocolate, you can never have too many tool bits!

N

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I think if you really got into it you might find where some of the "Named Tool steel" comes from, and its not Europe, uk, USA, or places like that, same place as most of the well known ball bearing races come from, and with either there is nothing wrong with them, except they are made there, not here. Ian S C

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Yes, someone mentioned Buying Eclipse tools rather than Asian ones. Well, Eclipse is a brandname of Niell Tools who in turn are owned by Spear & Jackson.

A quote from their website: "Over the years, Spear & Jackson’s products have become widely recognised for their heritage and high quality. The Group has expanded through acquisitions and we have also reduced costs by relocating selected manufacturing operations to Asia."

Who knows where the products they buy originate.

Russell.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Quality of HSS from overseas varies widely and there is no way to know what you will get, from order to order.

In the past I have received some excellent HSS blanks made in India through a local dealer, but 6 mo later when I ordered the same ones from same dealer, they were absolute rubbish, probably a low % plain carbon steel. You just never know.

Lately I have been buying through a US/CDN industrial supplier (KBC Tools), and while their HSS blanks are about 10X as expensive as the bargain ones, they are of very good quality. Same with HSS twist drills.

Good luck, JD

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

I know of an elderly gent in the US who will for $30 plus shipping (which would probably be $$$ to the UK) send folk a set of 1.5" or so square section lengths of wood, with the ends shaped as per toolbits, so that those new to the grinding game have a 3D model to copy.

There might be a pocket-money business opportunity there for someone on our side of the pond. the faces could be marked 1, 2, 3 … in order of grinding, and it might be possible to add some indication of angles, too.

Andy

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I have one of the tangential tools set up in my lathe which I bought from 'Eccentric Engineering' last year & this has turned out to be the most used tool so far,over 90% of the time, although not having done a vast amount of machining..yet..I am in the process of completing my 'Hemmingway' kit rear toolpost so have used it for cast iron,mild steel & it works just fine,have used it on 'ally' & brass too & just as good,simple to grind as well. I also bought a set of those HSS tools in a set from Warco as a Xmas prezzie to mesel' & so far have only used 2..! the knife tool & the 45* tool both have worked just fine with nice clean cutting action, the other 6 are still in the box..for now so from my perspective I would tend to take any disparaging views of these 'sets; with a pinch 'o' salt…… as an aside (I realise it's not the right forum but..) I have just had to replace my defunct pc with a new one running Windows 8 & can't get my 'enter' key to create a new paragraph break,hence the continuation.. any solutions would be most helpfull .. ' pretty pleeeeease! TIA George.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I have just had to replace my defunct pc with a new one running Windows 8 & can't get my 'enter' key to create a new paragraph break,hence the continuation.. any solutions would be most helpfull .. ' pretty pleeeeease! TIA George.

Yes, consign Widows 8 to the bin and install Windows XP or, better still, Linux.

Russell.

[TomfileryParticipant @tomfilery]

I am now going to pose an alternative view!

Prior to their move to new premises, earlier this year, Chronos offerred a range of Glanze 10mm sqare tools with replacable carbide tips for £7.00 each (including tip and torx key). I have, over a period, built up a set and use little else for all my turning on my 1956 Myford Super 7. Triangular tips are £3.00 each (or less if you buy 10 or so) and give you 3 cutting edges. I've worn a couple of tips out – I tend to turn dry and work on the usual materials (brass, steel, stainless) and have yet to chip one (though am careful how they are stored).

Clearly, having the ability to work grind your own HSS tools is desirable, but my advice would be not to dismiss tipped tools as you can get straight on with playing with your lathe, instead of having to hone (pun intended) your grinding skills before you start!

The tips handle interrupted cuts well (e.g. turning 3/4" hex round), though having been brought up on a small Cowells lathe, I tend to only take relatively light cuts, rather than "industrial" ones.

So, you don't have to spend a fortune on tipped tools, nor need to be a master grinder before you start.

Regards Tom

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Having just bought a new auto welding hood i desided to re read up on my welding (self taught). At the end of the book that I got when I bought the welder 25 yrs ago, I found a bit about making lathe tools, using a mild steel blank, with the tip formed with Di Tool HS. A little step is made on the end of the blank, a dam is made around this, and a puddle of the Di Tool HS is applied in the area, when cool the tip is ground to shape, I must enquire at some stage as to the cost of rods, to see if its worth trying.

Ian S C

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Petrolhead

When I started off it was with high speed steel lathe tooling. First a straight holder then A right and left holder. The Straight holder is by far the most used. These days Having tried one the Eccentric engineering "Diamond" holders I would start with one of those adding others as necessary.

Carbide is great for high speed turning but the finish can be less than desirable when used at slower speeds. Remembering that small diameter work is effectively running (In surface feet per minute terms) slow even at higher Lathe spindle RPM's due to the small diameter (circumference) of the work. A check of Machinery's Handbook or similar books will make this clear. look for the optimal speeds and feeds for various materials. Most carbide tooling has a rounded cutting edge, this edge is needed to help it stand up to the cutting forces, it is hard but brittle. Many carbide tools actually compress the material being cut at the edge of the cut, The chip forms behind this area, If the cutting conditions are wrong (Slow in particular) the surface finish deteriorates.

High Speed Steel is tougher but it will not hold its edge for as long as carbide. It is however easy to regrind it, Handy when a beginner makes the inevitable mistakes along the way to excellence. high speed steel cuts more like a sharp knife or chisel. It is happy to run at slower speeds. if the tool is sharp and properly ground. A good finish will result.

Carbide running at optimal cutting speed and feed for the particular material being cut and using the right carbide tip (assuming there is enough power to drive it) is a joy. For a production environment a must, For light workshop engineering less important Hence I would start with HSS first..

When selecting carbide tool holders I look for holders that take the ISO standard diamonds, triangles and squares. I avoid tools that require special one manufacturer or supplier tips and only buy leading brand tips, Asian not so cheap and cheerful tips are false economy. That includes house branded stuff from particular suppliers.

Shanks with brazed on tips are good if you have the means to regrind them, However indexable inserts offer 3, 6 or 8 sides (Tips) for some reversible squares I find them better economy.

Just my 2 bobs worth….

Cheers

John

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