Lathe turning tools

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Hi

Have a Myford ML7 and need to buy some decnt turning tools.

Should I be buying HSS or Indexing, pross and cons?

Also which size, the toolpost has a 25mm base on it

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

which ones

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi
I have a s7 with a 4 way toolpost similar to the one in your photo i find any tools above 3/8" square are two high above the centre line of the lathe ,
Have you checked the blue one shown in you picture on the centre line
Answer to you question depends what you intend turning myself for the home workshop i like HSS

Nobby

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Hi

To get the blue one ctr I need a small bit of packing. Are you saying that if I measure the tool with the packing that,s the size I would need

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

If your main requirement is buying decent tools, buying them from a reputable supplier should ensure good quality.

You are in luck if you are asking for someone to advise you which type of tooling to go for. It just so happens by some fortuitous chance this very subject has been mentioned before.

Just do a search on this the forum.

IanP

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi
It looked to me that it bigger than 3/8" sorry . I have a tin full off packing ready for that same purpose.
I may look into a quick change tool post . I have made tool bits to hold carbide tips

Nobby

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

So having a quick look it seems that its best to start with HSS, that was I will also learn about how to grind them.

So I just need to know what size to go for.

It may be nessessary to but a adjustable height quick change tool post, any suggestions as to which one

Edited By petro1head on 09/04/2013 12:07:41

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

!/4" HSS tooling in a tool holder would cover most of your machining, the tool holder holds the tool in a sq hole at an angle of about 15*, I have 3 of them One left, one right, and the other a straight one, by moving the tool in or out of the holder you either raise or lower the hight of the cutting edge. I'v got some bigger bits of HSS that just get clamped in the tool post with packing. Ian S C

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Petrolhead,

The other alternative is to get or make a tangential tool, it will do 80/90% of your turning (well it does most of my turning and facing) and getting it on centre is a doddle. As for sharpening, no other tool is as easy to learn how to get it right first time every time, a beginners delight. It is very economic to use as it uses HSS, especially economic if it saves you going down the carbide route thinking it will save you time learning to sharpen. Keep carbide for really tough or awkward materials where they come into their own, at least they do in a home shop environment, industry is a whole other game. We may all secretly aspire to being professionals but being amateurs we don't have to worry about milliseconds on each job, so HSS is usually good enough.

chriStephens

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

As Nobby says that 3/8 is suitable for a Myford I'd just get a 4 in length and make a different shape on each end. No need to get precious about special shapes as a basic knife tool (which is nothing like a knife) will both turn and face and chamfer so you only need to grind the other end when you find something you really can't do with what you've got.

The usual suppliers do simple parting tools. Don't get seduced by fancy inserted tip ones as they are so wide every cut costs a fiver in wasted metal these days.

There are a few websites with info on making tangential tool holders so as you have a milling machine you could consider that as a small learning project.

Find bits of aluminium for your packing. steel gets magnetised and grows swarf fur.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Looks like you're sorted as far as suitable tooling is concerned. If I were you, though, I'd next turn my attention to whatever you used to measure the base. Unless your lathe is really massive, that looks a lot less than 25.7mm to me!

(I have both carbide and HSS as well as a tangential tool holder. The latter is by far the most versatile and easy to use for a beginner like me.)

John

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Your so right the tool is 10mm and the base is 5.75mm, dooh

[John CParticipant @johnc47954]

I'm with chris S on this – get or make a tangential holder. If you want to buy one don't be put off by the price – you could easily pay more in inserts for index tools! A well know supplier with a UK outlet no longer advertises on this site, but can be found on Harold Hall's 'Model Engineering Website' . Their advert is not placed centrally.

Rgds,

John

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Guys
I may be bias but with HSS tool bits and a 4 way tool post and back parting tool You can have them all set up ready to go a1 roughing tool 2 a finish & faciing tool 3 a 45 degree tool. 4 threading tool. & a back parting tool ready to part the job off . Job done good carriage stop is also usefull . I will have my flack jacket on for any reply's

Carry on turning Nobby

Edited By Nobby on 09/04/2013 22:27:55

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Hi Nobby, what's the difference between a roughing and finishing tool

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi
Usually a round nose roughter . This has opened a can of worms ? .. It Depends on material you are turning steel ,brass ,aly etc . In my case for what I now do in retirement i use a a facing and turning tool I dont mind taking a battering and save my sharp finishing tool for light finishing cuts I also stone a nice finish on the tool faces

Nobby

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

So would a set like this be a good start

http://www.warco.co.uk/high-speed-steel-tool-bits/302779-8-piece-set-high-speed-steel-ground-tools.html

If not i having trouble finding somewhere to buy individual tools

Edited By petro1head on 09/04/2013 23:35:13

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

I'm sure they would fine for those who don't use their lathes or know what a really good finish looks like. Individual tools are ground from stock pieces of HSS, any engineering tool shop will sell you what is needed, but if possible steer clear of any marked "ch1na", the ones I have seen with those markings have shown themselves to be less than, ahem, ideal. It is not xenophobic to say buy British or from our cross pond cousins or for that matter our Euro cousins. There are some people on You tube, like "Mr. Pete222" or "Halligan142" who try to explain how to grind tools, there is also a Russian tutor but he does not yet have any subtitles which spoils things a little but worth watching all the same. Another alternative, if you can get to the SMEE HQ in south London, is to attend one of their grinding courses for a bit of personal tuition in a small group environment.

If you try at home and get confused by all the different grind angles given in the books, forget them and pick an average value for rake, clearance and relief etc. All that is needed for you to start turning is a sharp edge, precise angles are far less important, no matter what material you are turning.

chriStephens

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by chris stephens on 10/04/2013 00:54:11:

I'm sure they would fine for those who don't use their lathes or know what a really good finish looks like. Individual tools are ground from stock pieces of HSS, any engineering tool shop will sell you what is needed, but if possible steer clear of any marked "ch1na", the ones I have seen with those markings have shown themselves to be less than, ahem, ideal. It is not xenophobic to say buy British or from our cross pond cousins or for that matter our Euro cousins. There are some people on You tube, like "Mr. Pete222" or "Halligan142" who try to explain how to grind tools, there is also a Russian tutor but he does not yet have any subtitles which spoils things a little but worth watching all the same. Another alternative, if you can get to the SMEE HQ in south London, is to attend one of their grinding courses for a bit of personal tuition in a small group environment.

If you try at home and get confused by all the different grind angles given in the books, forget them and pick an average value for rake, clearance and relief etc. All that is needed for you to start turning is a sharp edge, precise angles are far less important, no matter what material you are turning.

chriStephens

I am not sure where the Warco ones are from however I live in newcastle upon tyne so a bit of a hike

I agree that I need to get to grips with sharpening but I want to get started now so therefore want ready made tools. A a leter date I can then buy some blank tool steel and have a go myselt, that way should I flounder I still have some tool that will work

[MadMikeParticipant @madmike]

Try RDG or Chronos they have pre ground HSS tools. RDG are very prompt at delivering I might add. If you buy a set I would suggest that you also buy a few pieces of HSS to start grinding your own tools. The sooner you start the sooner you will be in a position to have the confidence to make all of your own. Other suppliers are available. HTH.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Don't use HSS bigger than you really need. 1/4 in should do for most ME jobs. Remember that the amount of material you need to grind away increases with the cube of the size so, for example a 3/8 tool will need more than three times the amount of material removed for a given shape than a 1/4 tool.

Russell.

[Adrian Parker 1Participant @adrianparker1]

I use one of these Eccentric Engineering tool holders:-

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/

and I am impressed.

The great advantage of it is that it is dead easy to keep sharp.

Adrian

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you d go down the track of getting a 4" length of 3/8" HSS it s quite a good idea to put a Lh tool at one end, and a Rh tool at the other end. One of my tool holders for carbide tips ias made that way, and is at times quite handy. Most of my bits of HSS, 3/8" and larger are form tools, the ridgidity of the larger size helps keep the chatter away.

Another way to make tools is to get hold of damaged carbide circular saw blades, remove the tips(half of them point to the left, and the others to the right), chose the one you want and silver solder it to a little knotch in the end of a bit of steel bar (high tensile bolts are good), Ian S C

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi guys,

Lest any of you think that I was criticising Warco, my slur was for preformed tools in general which are meant for hobbyists and marked with that all too frequently ominous five letter word, from any of the usual suspects. The set I was shewn, that had been bought by a friend and asked for my opinion, were as I said earlier less that ideal both in sharpness and quality of material.

My fear is that a beginner will buy inferior goods, like some of these tools can be, and make false assumptions about their own abilities to work metal. "I bought these "proper" tools and get a rubbish finish, it must therefore be me or my machine", or, " I just can't cut to size, it' either wont cut or takes too much off", as they say first impressions tend to last! Surely it would be much better to grind a simple knife point, if you can't yet make or buy a tangential which is the easiest of all to sharpen, than wonder why you can't a decent finish and accurate size on your work.

For any beginners viewing, aim for a decent finish that is smooth, you just can't measure over a rough surface because the rough high spots soon wear down making the item undersize. Clearly you can use abrasives to achieve smoothness but it is much quicker to get it right first time. Keep the abrasives for that extra gleam or that final minute size adjustment, talking tenths here not thous.

Machining can be a very rewarding hobby and you don't want to be put off at the early stages by inadequate tools while you are still learning (that's you set for the next fifty years then or until the road trip in a hearse intercedes)

chriStephens

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by chris stephens on 10/04/2013 14:13:05:

Hi guys,

Lest any of you think that I was criticising Warco, my slur was for preformed tools in general which are meant for hobbyists and marked with that all too frequently ominous five letter word, from any of the usual suspects. The set I was shewn, that had been bought by a friend and asked for my opinion, were as I said earlier less that ideal both in sharpness and quality of material.

My fear is that a beginner will buy inferior goods, like some of these tools can be, and make false assumptions about their own abilities to work metal. "I bought these "proper" tools and get a rubbish finish, it must therefore be me or my machine", or, " I just can't cut to size, it' either wont cut or takes too much off", as they say first impressions tend to last! Surely it would be much better to grind a simple knife point, if you can't yet make or buy a tangential which is the easiest of all to sharpen, than wonder why you can't a decent finish and accurate size on your work.

For any beginners viewing, aim for a decent finish that is smooth, you just can't measure over a rough surface because the rough high spots soon wear down making the item undersize. Clearly you can use abrasives to achieve smoothness but it is much quicker to get it right first time. Keep the abrasives for that extra gleam or that final minute size adjustment, talking tenths here not thous.

Machining can be a very rewarding hobby and you don't want to be put off at the early stages by inadequate tools while you are still learning (that's you set for the next fifty years then or until the road trip in a hearse intercedes)

chriStephens

I hear what your saying Chris, buy cheap buy twice Avoid Asia made tools

Ok nuf said, so where do I buy quality tools. To my RDG, Warco etc etc seem to sell tools at the same price so mush assume they are from Asia

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