Inherited Problems

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Inherited Problems

This topic has 32 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 29 January 2015 at 18:42 by David Watson 3.

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1 January 2015 at 12:00 #174218

David Watson 3

Participant

@davidwatson3

Amongst the workshop equipment I inherited is a Saunders 1/2" bench drill. As good a drill it may be I want to change the chuck to key less. The original chuck key was missing and finding a 1/4" x 12 tooth key is proving difficult. I have tried to remove the chuck by unscrewing with no luck . Any clues please.

I also inherited a set of 6mm lathe tools for the mini lathe. They have triangular replaceable inserts. Any ideas who stocks inserts for these tools as there are three tools with no inserts fitted.

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1 January 2015 at 12:00 #12399

David Watson 3

Participant

@davidwatson3

Chuck Key / Lathe tool inserts

1 January 2015 at 12:01 #174219

nigel jones 5

Participant

@nigeljones5

rdg sell the insert

1 January 2015 at 12:31 #174222

Bikepete

Participant

@bikepete

The chuck is likely mounted on a taper, rather than a thread. Typically it'll be a Morse 2 socket in the spindle, into which an adaptor fits with a Jacobs taper on the other end to mount the chuck – see e.g. here. For removal of the adaptor from the spindle there may be provision for a drift to go in from the side of the quill, while for getting the chuck off the adaptor a set of wedges may be necessary – both as per e.g. here.

Is it definitely 'Saunders' BTW? Not familiar with it and best google could see was a 'Sanders' as per this forum post. Might be helpful to post a picture of it and a close-up of the chuck/quill area for further advice.

1 January 2015 at 12:38 #174223

frank brown

Participant

@frankbrown22225

Chucks normally have short stubby taper called JT2/3/4. So they are pulled out. As for the chuck key, I bought a replacement one for an old power tool from a builders merchant. They had a huge catalogue with the right one in. 1/4" seems to be popular, have you tried Machine Mart?, I tried to count the number of teeth in their online picture, could be 12 (or 11, or even 13?).

Frank

1 January 2015 at 12:45 #174225

David Watson 3

Participant

@davidwatson3

Thanks folks. I had a look on the other forum and that is the same drill. The taper fit and wedges seems to be the way to remove the chuck. I will have a delve into the boxes from dads workshop I recall a wedge shaped bit of black steel. Maybe that's the missing bits.

1 January 2015 at 13:03 #174229

Ian S C

Participant

@iansc

If the quill has a slot in it a few inches from the end A wedge shaped bit of steel 3" or 4" long fits in here to drive out a Morse taper. Otherwise the idea is a pair of flat steel wedges with a U cut out to go round the taper between the chuck, and the quill.

I too had a look for Saunders, couldn't find anything.

Ian S C

1 January 2015 at 13:46 #174241

Bazyle

Participant

@bazyle

If there is no slot as mentioned by Ian and no hole down from the top it is likely that there is no morse taper hole but the spindle is solid and fits directly into the chuck. The chuck itself still probably fits on a taper it is just that you will have more difficulty to identify the taper sixe.

2 January 2015 at 11:24 #174405

Ian S C

Participant

@iansc

There is usually a gap between the top of the chuck, and the bottom of the quill, in that gap you will see the diameter of the top of the taper, you will then know which size of taper wedge to get from one of the engineering suppliers, Warco, Arceuro Trade, or similar. Anyone who sells drill chucks, and machines to put them on.

Ian S C

2 January 2015 at 11:43 #174406

Neil Wyatt

Moderator

@neilwyatt

Hi David,

Are you sure its 12 teeth? Most keys are 11.

My big Wolf drill has an 11 by 1/4" (0.242&quot key. You might find that one of those fits?

Neil

2 January 2015 at 19:28 #174463

David Watson 3

Participant

@davidwatson3

This drill is a bit of an odd ball . I have had a close look at the chuck and it has" Rexon RJ 6-13 engraved on it. The chuck key is 1/4 x 12 teeth which is an odd one. I don't think the drill was used much whilst my father was making clocks, I recall him complaining about the key very early on. Most of his drilling was done on a Pots sensitive drill with a rising table rather than a quill like a normal drill. I remember it being made in the early 60,s and I still find it better for small drills. I have a cordless drill with a keyless chuck and find that be so much better than faffing about looking for lost keys so that will be a gift to my workshop next.

2 January 2015 at 20:40 #174479

Chris Trice

Participant

@christrice43267

It may be possible to remove the chuck by drilling and threading a small hole inside the main body of the chuck and using an allen screw to jack the chuck directly off the taper. There's a good chance the body is not overly hardened and there should be a small gap between the end of the taper and the chuck body.

2 January 2015 at 20:53 #174480

Michael Gilligan

Participant

@michaelgilligan61133

Posted by David Watson 3 on 02/01/2015 19:28:27:

David,

It might be worth trying here.

MichaelG.

24 January 2015 at 18:20 #177193

David Watson 3

Participant

@davidwatson3

Thanks for all the advise regarding the chuck key issues. I have had to admit defeat and get the chuck off. I am about to order another chuck but I am not sure what the taper is ?. As some one said the chuck is on a short tapered stub, JT2/3/4 was mentioned. I am going for a keyless chuck this time.

24 January 2015 at 18:30 #177196

mechman48

Participant

@mechman48

I did the same with my metalworker bench drill.. got two wedges… size JT2

**LINK**

& popped the original chuck off, replaced with keyless chuck, saves a lot of hassle looking for chuck key.

George

24 January 2015 at 19:03 #177201

Neil Wyatt

Moderator

@neilwyatt

If it isn't too old it may have a B-taper, if the small end of an MT2 taper fits it, it's B2 and so on.

Neil

24 January 2015 at 20:11 #177208

David Watson 3

Participant

@davidwatson3

A little more information regarding the taper for the chuck. I found a list of tapers on the ARC web site. The nearest I can get is JT 6. Could this relate to the RJ6-13 stamped on the body of the chuck?. The 13 I assume relates to the capacity of the chuck.

24 January 2015 at 20:31 #177209

Michael Gilligan

Participant

@michaelgilligan61133

David,

If you look at the link I posted previously and click on any of the chuck images, you will see that they identify the taper as B16 … [whatever that might be]

MichaelG.

Edit: corrected typo

Edit: found the dimensions, here

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/01/2015 20:43:01

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/01/2015 20:46:04

24 January 2015 at 21:01 #177211

Neil Wyatt

Moderator

@neilwyatt

This could help:

Jacob's Tapers

Taper	Small End		Big End		Length
Taper	mm	inch	mm	inch	mm	inch
#0	5.80	0.2284	6.35	0.2500	11.11	0.4375
#1	8.47	0.3334	9.75	0.3840	16.67	0.6563
#2	12.39	0.4876	14.20	0.5590	22.23	0.8750
#2 Short	12.39	0.4876	13.94	0.5488	19.05	0.7500
#2 ¹⁄₂	15.88	0.625	17.20	0.677	26.80	1.055
#3	18.95	0.7461	20.60	0.8110	30.96	1.2188
#4	26.34	1.0372	28.55	1.1240	42.07	1.6563
#5	33.43	1.3161	35.89	1.4130	47.63	1.8750
#6	15.85	0.6241	17.17	0.6760	25.40	1.0000
#33	14.23	0.5604	15.85	0.6240	25.40	1.0000

Neil

Creative commons share alike licence, from : **LINK**

24 January 2015 at 23:11 #177224

Michael Gilligan

Participant

@michaelgilligan61133

From the link on my previous post:

B16	15,733mm 0.6194"	14,5mm 0.5709"	24mm 0.9449"	0.6165

Go Compare ?

MichaelG.

25 January 2015 at 08:26 #177237

Ian S C

Participant

@iansc

MichaelG, and Noel, you'v gone off wandering under the adds on the RH side.

Ian S C

25 January 2015 at 08:42 #177240

Les Jones 1

Participant

@lesjones1

Hi David,
I am a bit confused about the problem. You seem to be talking about ordering a chuck but I can not see any post to say that you have removed the old chuck to measure the taper. I would have thought that you would need to measure the taper BEFORE ordering a chuck.

Les.

25 January 2015 at 08:43 #177241

Michael Gilligan

Participant

@michaelgilligan61133

Posted by Ian S C on 25/01/2015 08:26:50:

MichaelG, and Noel, you'v gone off wandering under the adds on the RH side.

Ian S C

Please Sir … it woz him wot started it !!

25 January 2015 at 09:26 #177247

Circlip

Participant

@circlip

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 25/01/2015 08:43:35:

Posted by Ian S C on 25/01/2015 08:26:50:

MichaelG, and Noel, you'v gone off wandering under the adds on the RH side.

Ian S C

Same old same old, more than three years now and the basic web site problem still not rectified. Same as post numbers, or lack thereof.

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 25/01/2015 09:27:27

25 January 2015 at 15:27 #177287

David Watson 3

Participant

@davidwatson3

Hi Folks, Thanks for all the information regarding the taper for this chuck. The nearest I can find to match the drill is JT6. As I said the chuck has RJ6 scribed on it this seems to be my best clue. After a bit of cleaning up I realise I was wrong with the make..The data plate on the side of the head say J Sanders, 1982, not Saunders as I first thought. The bench grinder that came from my fathers workshop is the same make. I have ordered a keyless chuck from Chronos this afternoon so I hope its correct.