Indoor Lathe

[dizzibitsParticipant @dizzibits]

That's encouraging, thank you Neil and Russ. I am glad I posted some pictures.

I have just spoken with my new house mate who is a friendly and considerate person who practices choir singing, which gives me a perfect out for making machine noise!

What we discussed is that despite there being no neighbours underneath, above or to the side of the room, I am above her bedroom in that spot. So we have semi-agreed that I use the other side of the bannister – pictures below. Same problem of carpet and clean walls, but more space at 5 x 7 feet.

I take heed of the advice about mess, I guess a plastic sheet tacked to the wall may be one way of protecting them? I will certainly plan for the floor and wall surface before purchasing an expensive lathe. Also rubber insulation for the bench vibration and sound.

Another issue is making it look aesthetically pleasing, or having something to pull over when work is finished. The whole room is a 20 x 20 lounge, and its main purpose needs to remain a lounge!

Russ I shall certainly head to the university's design department and introduce myself, that is a good idea! The commercial place I have been receiving tuition is not the cheapest if I were to stay for an afternoon under instruction. This is why I want something at home where I can make mistakes in peace.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Wow that's a great space upgrade!

I wouldn't have thought noise would be to greater concern and if things are vibrating – well that's not normal in my books, what little use I've had with my Myford has been very very quiet, the motor is the noisiest bit – even parting off 60mm EN16 was smooth and quiet last night, a very satisfying noise came from the sound of metal peeling off the diameter

In terms of keeping things clean, AND atheistically pleasing, tacking a sheet to wall is probably not going to be satisfactory – and now you seem to be facing head heigh issues, would a bench at working height there not mean you'd bump your head and no doubt fling oil up on to the ceiling?

Perhaps you could setup a mini workshop in or on a Tambour (in a full height, on a bench height!)! that way your containing everything in there, with a full height – you've got walls, you've got sides, I would remove the lower shelves and build a wood frame inside and place an old kitchen worktop on it, and mount the lathe to another piece of worktop so you can use the lathe on it, or store the lathe under it to work on other things. Chucks, tools, stock could all be stored in the tambour, and tidied away by simply closing the roller shutter doors!

perhaps the bottom section could contain a piece of vinyl mat or just a roll of folded carpet that can be unrolled and folded out and then just rolled back in where your done.

A nice little CJ18 or CJ18A from Amadeal (they do one with a 100mm 4" spindle plate, very worth while having) would sit nicely in there.

aka the Warco "mini lathe", and "super mini lathe" (same thing slightly different)

SPG Tools "0618" and "0618A" (notice the pattern….)

​Chester Hobby Store "Conquest" and "Conquest Super" (the pattern continues)

Arc Euro Trade do some nice machines too and I have experienced there great service, I don't think they do any really cheap machines like this – they are obviously not as well made as some of the more expensive machines, but many enjoy them and are happy.

There was another lathe supplier that I can't remember the name of, they had a simple website and offered a range of lathes – it's completely gone from memory……. similar green and yellow colours like Warco, lathes had numbers for model numbers….. it's gone, I can't blame it on my age, it's been a while since I dug all this info up.

I think when all my research was done I was going to go home with either an SPG 0618A, Amadeal CJ18A, or go bigger with SP2124 550, if I wanted something more long term (this became an option when comparing it's price to a Chester DB7VS which was much smaller and had no power cross feed (for facing) at a similar price – also I think some of them don't have reversible feed directions on the leadscrew which could cause issues if you need a left hand thread?

They're almost all the same, some of them are physically bigger capacity, most notably the larger spindle plate from one of the models sold by Amadeal and SPG, I think someone was selling a mini quick change tool post in the standard package which is nice but relatively easy to instal yourself – unlike upgrading to the larger spindle which is not really economical or quick!

I'm really talking about the real bare entry level models here, they're very cheap and when looked after they do hold there value very well but perhaps things will break from time to time – if you're planning on upgrading in a year or 2/3 these might well be a great little starter machine. Personally not being limited by space I went for a used Myford Super 7 as it came up locally I got very lucky basically – it was cheap (£500) and it was virtually unused and has no real sighs of wear – my god, its heavy – 2 man lift – 2 strong men at that!

It's a lot to consider – I don't envy you at all right now!

 

Edited By Russ B on 25/09/2014 17:53:12

[dizzibitsParticipant @dizzibits]

Thanks again Russ for the detailed post and information, and to all that have posted here. Be assured these tips will be of great use to me in the coming weeks as I move forward.

I have decided to go for a simple and cheap room divider to separate the "workshop", stair entrance and lounge space. I assume you mean something similar with the Tambour Russ? I tried looking up a tambour without much luck. Is there a link or photo to what you mean? Having 5 x 7 is too tempting an opportunity to pass up, and a divider will mean I can leave protective materials like sheets, rubber and cleaning friendly carpet/flooring in place without the hassle of putting away etc.

I have some measuring equipment and books on their way, the next step is to prepare the space with the above, then design an appropriate work bench and get that together. Then purchase a vice, clamps and other ancillary modelling tools. Then the lathe.

The Chester DB7VS is the one I have my eye on with the powered longitudinal feed, which the minis' I have looked at do not appear to include, and also is a reasonable weight to get up those stairs!

I shall keep the thread updated with my progress.

Many thanks

Dominic

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Hi Dom, thanks for the thanks!

No, ALL those machine have power logitudinal feed, its very standard on modern small lathes, you'll notice they quote a range of metric and imperial threads – meaning it can cut those – ie. traverse the carriage up and down the bed at a ratio linked to the spindle rpm – set it to the finest setting and it will traverse smoothly up and down.

The only lathe I'm aware of that doesn't have power traverse out of the box is this Sieg C0, and that lathe is only 125mm between centres and weighs less than a bag of a spuds.

These are Tambours, perhaps theres is a different name for them I don't know =)

http://www.southernofficefurniture.co.uk/a/img/products/main_786.jpg

Well it was my Sheffield Hallam Uni induction today, and as soon as I was done I headed down to the workshops to chat to some of the technicians, absolutely fantastic! I spent 2 whole hours chatting with one of them, he showed me all the manual mills and lathes, grinders and explained the ins and outs of feeds and speeds, gave me many many bits of help and advice do's and don't's, tool care, lathe cleaning – even when he was saying nothing I was learning and most importantly he showed me cutter geometry and grinding techniques. All 1 on 1, he had a few hours spare and was teaching me bits and bobs right up till he had to leave. I mean I couldn't ask for more, absolutely brilliant. I'm still smiling! I'm scheduled for a health and safety induction next week and after that I'll actually be able to get hands on, although there isn't much to do, it's much more of an extra curricular thing, you have to find time between lectures to get stuck in, their doors are open most evenings sometimes as late as 8pm!

Amazing!

[dizzibitsParticipant @dizzibits]

Wow, that's incredible! Good for you

Ah I see with the Tambour, yet more food for thought! Oh that's good with the traverse feed… excellent. So automatic cross feed is the one that is not seen in entry level or mini lathes…

Good luck with your studies, it is my first induction day Monday. Yes this is all extra-curricular for me too.

Edited By dizzibits on 26/09/2014 17:37:10

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> which the minis' I have looked at do not appear to include,

If that's a concern of yours, be aware that all the mini lathes with screwcutting ability also have longitudinal feed, you just use two sets of 20 and 80 tooth gears (supplied) on the leadscrew.

Neil

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Dom,

Correct, the automatic cross feed (for facing) is just on bigger machines, – it requires quite a lot of components to implement and thus is fairly expensive and requires a certain amount of space to house.

The SP2124 550 that I referenced is 1.4 meters long overall, vs the DB7VS at just over half that! In terms of cubic feet, the SP2124 occupies 3 times the space in a room – it might just sit ontop of a Tambour, but even if you could squeeze it inside one, you wouldn't have room to spin handles at the tailstock end or open the guard to change the feed/screwcutting gears at the headstock end.

The SP2124 is like almost exactly the same (certainly in terms of features) as the more evolved DB10 Super, different body work, different gearbox, and probably other internal differences, they stem from the same bed design, The SP2124 is no lesser machine, just a bit more "old skool" (Well, old to me and you anyway)

Spoilt for choice really, there is so much to consider, as I said, I don't envy you at all, I was so relieved when I finally got my lathe, and even happier with the fortunate hand I was dealt – I ground a new tool last night for roughing, and it sliced 6mm off the diameter of a 50mm bar in one hit with power traverse, no sweat, no noise, the motor – it didn't even slow down, it just curled it away, I wouldn't like to try that with a mini machine!

Edited By Russ B on 26/09/2014 18:09:44

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Don't forget that a vacuum cleaner (with hose) will be very useful.

Something else you need to consider is that swarf etc can be carried about the house on your clothing, this needs some careful thought in a household type setting, unless you want complaints from the other occupants.

Edited By V8Eng on 26/09/2014 19:58:43

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Having established that two or you are students what on earth are you doing wasting time on modelling and money on lathes for? A weighty lathe will be a millstone on the multiple moves you will make in the next ten years.
Once you have spent an appropriate amount of time on academic work, and perhaps a part time job any spare time and money should be spent on GIRLS.

If you don't you will regret it .

If you can get a suitable girl you will have far more money in later life as most of your bills will be halved – sure she will still want money spent on her but your houeshold income wiill double which alone you would not achieve for twenty or more years, Thus you will have far more chance of a house with garden and shed and finally a decent lathe.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Any self respecting engineering student will have already started the process of collecting machine tools for use in later life but that's just a fact of life. Nothing wrong with it.

Sheffield Hallam sounds reasonably enlightened. It's really dumb to prevent students from getting their hands dirty – we should be encouraging it. During my university years I never managed to get into any of the workshops. They often have really nice gear that you could never hope to buy yourself – hope Russ makes the most of it, not neglecting the primary target (see Bazyle's warning) in the meantime, obviously.

Murray

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Murray,

I agree, we should encourage students to get their hands dirty and do some machining. Unlike you I was lucky enough to get into one of the workshops when I was a student many decades ago (another millennium in fact). I got to use a Master 2500 lathe and a Senior hor. milling machine – pays off to be on good terms with the technicians running the workshop.

Thor

[dizzibitsParticipant @dizzibits]

Now you see Bazyle, there is this thing called a mature student! I have already had something of a career working for London Underground and Network Rail in the last decade. I also have several millstones in the shape of the furniture I possess, some of which is a lot heavier and cumbersome than a long hundredweight lathe!

I am also gainfully employed and have met my good lady. I hope this meets all the criteria one must have to purchase a lathe…

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

H Ha. One last piece of advice – come to the St Albans DMES show – starts today so you've got 1 & half hours to drive down fo rthe start ! see other thread for details.

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Well, it's silly putting the word mature anywhere near me, but being a little way off 30, I'm certainly "older" than most of the students

I'm sponsored by my employer who released me 1 day a week so eventually I can be a little more independent from our senior design engineers who currently mentor me.

I have also met my other half and we've recently bought a house with a garage, and it has just enough room at the end to squeeze a few benches in, she insists on being able to still get her car in, along with my motorbikes so it's a real squeeze – but I've got to keep her happy!

We're not exactly awash with cash at these early stages of home ownership (we've been renting for 5 or 6 years to save for a deposit) and we both now put the majority of our spare cash towards a saving fund which will need to buy her a new car and then replace the early 80's gas central heating system and renovate the whole house. We have about £50-100 each month left over to buy ourselves things – so I have holes in my shoes and all my clothes, but a lathe and milling machine – my pants are so Holy they're actually starting to resemble Jesus Christ.

I suspect once certain things are sorted it's not going to be long before something else comes along that occupies all my time and money for at least 18-20 years……….. and then just all my money after that. Thus I think now is as good as ever but things will likely hit a stage where they're mostly just gathering dust for a decade or 2…….. and then I'll hopefully have the cash and space to buy something a bit fancier.

Edited By Russ B on 27/09/2014 09:50:07

Edited By Russ B on 27/09/2014 09:52:13

[dizzibitsParticipant @dizzibits]

And sayeth unto him, thy briefs were blessed as thou cheese-makers!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> for at least 18-20 years

Oh, the optimism of youth!

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

And when you find the right girl, you'll have to find room for her lathe too.

Ian S C

[john jennings 1Participant @johnjennings1]

A lathe/workshop in the house is quite practical within limitations. If hidden away in a cellar or accessible loft a fairly large set up is possible – say ML7 size.

On an 'open' site as proposed I would suggest we need to keep feet firmly on the ground and fitting as big a lathe as will fit in and fill the space will lead to conflict and frustration. Working space is required round machine tools and many other tasks have to be done round 'lathing'.

As is always true the size of the proposed work governs machine size as does the landing location.

From experience if a smaller size is practicable an EMCO UNIMAT 3 (4) or Compact 5 could fit the bill. Both can be fitted with a mill drill and the latter a combined drip tray splash guard. The Unimat is also cupboard storable. Both were well built in Austria (although at a price – but not a lot else was available 30 years ago). The Compact 5 is one man handleable

I have not had experience of the later more or less clones which are I guess far Eastern (but much cheaper).

Once set up dirt control is the big problem swarf flies , sticks and moves. No answers!

JOHN

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

Posted by Ian S C on 28/09/2014 10:26:07:

And when you find the right girl, you'll have to find room for her lathe too.

Ian S C

Hahaa!

I wish =)

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