Identifying a vintage lathe

[Haydn CallowParticipant @haydncallow19480]

Nick, that is exactly what I need. Many thanks for taking the trouble.
mine doesn’t have the fork that comes off the headstock spindle.

also no 20 teeth beers..but at lease I know what I’m aiming for.

I suppose if I get different gears to transmit power from the spindle to the lead screw it will only affect the speed of the lead screw…..I doubt I will ever be doing any threading on this machine and as long as I can get the lead screw turning at a sensible speed to move the saddle I will be happy….

thanks again

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Haydn, yours does have a fork on the headstock, but it's not on the spindle, it's part of the headstock casting, though it looks as if it has been cut shorter, it's just behind the vertical part of your banjo in your pictures that you got in the wrong order, above my last post.

Regards Nick.

[Haydn CallowParticipant @haydncallow19480]

Thanks….got it !

[Haydn CallowParticipant @haydncallow19480]

Well, now got the basket case together and it’s looking o.k. I have cobbled up some spindles for the gears to spin on, no idea what I’m doing regarding ratios ect… the photos show the present result….all I want is the lead screw to transport the saddle at a sensible speed to work with, can’t actually run the lathe yet as I’m waiting for a drive belt which I should have tomorrow. I have a couple of gears left over so I can alter things if required.

again thanks for all the help from everyone…..

[Haydn CallowParticipant @haydncallow19480]

[Haydn CallowParticipant @haydncallow19480]

The gears are not actually turning on those M10 bolts, I made up some steel sleeves for them…should I make replacements up out of a different metal later ? These are mild steel I think.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

The gears might actually be cast-iron (the texture of the un-machined areas would be a clue), which will run on mild-steel.

Otherwise, if they are steel, leaded-bronze but not phosphor-bronze, is probably the best material.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

All Drummond gears are cast iron which is why some thugs manage to break teeth off. Your set up is right in principle
Have you looked at any of the hundreds of pictures on the 'net showing typical set-ups? Normally you use both slots in the banjo so that the gear train is 3 pairs of small driving large gear for max reduction then save the position on the headstock to put in just one idler that reverses the direction when you want the carriage to go left to right rather than the normal right to left.

[Haydn CallowParticipant @haydncallow19480]

Well, fitted drive belt and the lathe is working pretty much as it should……with the gears as above the saddle wizzes along very fast so I changed the gears as in the photo in this post and it is much better but still much to fast….where do I go from here ? Do I try and source a couple of 20 tooth gears…

another problem is when the lead screw is engaged the part the ‘clutch lever’ engages that carries the bottom gear slowly moves out until the lead screw disengages. I have looked for a grub screw or something to lock it in position but nothing seems obvious.

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 28/09/2022 18:24:16

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The minimum with the standard set of gears would be eg 20 driving 55, 30 driving 60, 30 or 35 driving 65. ie 3 smallest driving 3 largest. However nowadays you may be able to get several 20s perhaps 3D printed.
The clutch disengagement is due to wear in the engagement slot which could be filed parallel again but in the interim just hand a few nuts on a loop of string and hang it over the lever in the direction that creates the necessary holding torque.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Haydn Callow on 28/09/2022 16:35:03:

… it is much better but still much to fast….where do I go from here ?

The set up on the banjo is on the right track, but one compound stage is missing. The photo provided by Nicholas shows the arrangement:

Nicholas' set-up has an extra pair of small/big gears which reduce his overall ratio considerably. Have you another big gear available?

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Haydn, you need to see if you can get a couple of 20 tooth gears and a 73t one. but even getting one 20t will help.

Regards Nick.

[Haydn CallowParticipant @haydncallow19480]

Thanks, I think I understand it now, I’m on the case !

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

have a look at the Drummond group on io.groups – there used to be a document on there called. I think allsets which listed all of the different sets of change gears that Drummond supplied over the life of the lathes. I don't think it will matter which set you use – I would choose the one where you need the fewest extra gears,

There is a set of 3D printable drummond gears on Thingyverse, but I have not had success printing some of the sizes,

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I added extra fine feed to my Drummond M Type by using cheap as chips toothed belts and toothed pulley off t'internet. XL series belts and pulleys from memory. Much cheaper than gears. I bored them and fitted bronze bushings and made my own spindles etc for them to mount on.

 

Standard Drummond gear set is 20 to 70 by fives plus a 38 from memory.  But the groups.io Drumondlathe group has the exact listings.

Edited By Hopper on 29/09/2022 10:39:11

Edited By Hopper on 29/09/2022 10:41:39

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

A full set is

20
20
30
30
35
38
40
45
46
50
55
60
65
73

I've done my babbit pour so will write it up in the next day or two

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Hopper, that is a really clever idea, I like it. One could of course use any gears that would fit and mesh with each other, and if the bores could be adapted, and if the two driving holes could be put in, to match the Drummond gears, you could mix gears on the same pin providing they clear on their sides so they miss other overlapping gears, but the gears you choose would need to be at least as robust as the Drummond ones are. According to my M type genuine Drummond Bros. ltd. booklet, the Chage Wheels supplied as standard are; 2 x 20, 2 x 30, and one each of 35, 38, 40, 45, 46, 50, 55, 60, 65 and 73, of which I have all of those with my Myford M type.

Regards Nick.

P.S. Ady1 & I agree on one thing at least.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 29/09/2022 11:16:33

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I think you have to be a bit careful though. Gears of like DP will mesh, but not very well if the pressure-angles differ.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 29/09/2022 23:06:04:

I think you have to be a bit careful though. Gears of like DP will mesh, but not very well if the pressure-angles differ.

Hi Nigel, I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying. I don't propose meshing gears of different DP or different PA, what I mean is to gang two gears on one pin in a chain of gears, where each gear is meshing with the same DP and PA as their own type. OK, it's a bit messy, but it could get one out of a muddle when gears of the same DP/PA are not available, but it will need the ability for the two different gears being locked together that are on the same pin.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 30/09/2022 07:24:16

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Oh, that would be fine, Nicholas!

It was something I found when I was looking at enhancing the range of change-wheels on my EW lathe. They run from 25 to 65 teeth by 5s, if I remember correctly, and the machine won't accommodate more than a two-step compound train. I'd considered filling in some of the gaps, e.g. with a 32 or 63T wheel.

The EW uses similarly to the Drummond, a small pin to connect gears side by side.

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