FTTP broadband – specifically ConnectFibre

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

There was much digging going on in my street a few weeks ago – to the extent that the road was closed to traffic for several days. When things got back to normal a chap from an outfit called Connect Fibre knocked on the door and said that they could offer me 150Mb/s download/upload over FTTP for £22.50 a month fixed over an 18 month contract. So I suppose they had been doing the digging.

I emailed him asking for confirmation that there was no upfront cost to me in installing their service and had a prompt response reassuring me that they would bring fibre to the house, provide a wizzo router etc at no extra cost to me. Great! I’m currently paying about £35 for copper to cabinet which seems to be obsolescent technology. Way to go.

I then emailed (over a week ago) asking what would happen at the end of the contract – would I  be tied to their service because they owned the physical infrastructure, or would I be able to change ISP if market conditions made it favourable for me to do so.

No reply.

That makes me wary. It also made me realise that I have little idea of how it all works. I thought that only Openreach and Virgin actually owned fibre networks (ie had invested in laying cables and providing routing services) available to the general population. I believe (but I might be wrong) that if you have a Virgin cable you are tied to their service, but that if you have an Openreach connection you are able to switch between the many ISP’s who use their physical network.

Any elucidation would be welcome!

Robin.

Robin.

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The local fibre is specific to that provider, not (yet) company agnostic. There are fibre trunk networks that are third parties and Virgin and BT use a lot of them. They carry all sorts of data, eg for banks, TV, alarms etc and voice telecoms or internet is just a bit of the traffic.
With copper to the home that is almost a monopoly for Openreach now because there is no money in it but the trunk for that is is now fibre. You can only switch to another ‘copper’ feed if the other company has installed their own local switch, or now commonly rented a block of the original BT equipment.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

That’s a good question. We have in the village a FTTP provider, Quantum Fibre, to which I was planning migrate in April when my current BT FTTC contract expires. (BT has ripped me off once too often with their scandalous inflation + 2% annual price rise). The fibre company has told me that it can provide a faster connection and keep my old landline number (only so Mr. Patel can still call every Monday with his latest scam because no one else ever calls it these days) for less than two-thirds of the BT price. However, in the meantime I have had a flyer through the post from another FTTP provider so I assumed that the fibre network was open to more than one company. Going by the above it seems this is not the case. Maybe the original FTTP provider has been taken over and changed names, I will have to check this and if the price is going to be any different to that already quoted. I have not seen any other provider’s vehicles or staff installing any additional network.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Openreach installed my Fibre … from the pole, all the way to inside the house; where I simply plugged it into the FRITZ!Box router that was supplied by Zen internet.

At my request, the copper from pole to premises was also removed.

My DECT phones work fine with the VoIP that’s built into the FRITZ!Box

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ for curiosity, I have just tried my PostCode on this page:

https://www.connectfibre.co.uk/?packageType=home

and No, it is “not yet”available here … which suggests to me that underground and overhead fibres are managed separately .

 

[David AmbroseParticipant @davidambrose86182]

As in understand it, the government has opened up the network to allow other providers to put in their own cables.  I also heard that they are not allowed to use the BT Openreach infrastructure.  In our village Swish have just installed cabinets, and I assume that they will start digging up pavements soon.  You may have seen that in some areas the new providers have started putting up poles, even though BT already have underground connections.  They are allowed to do this.  In the meantime, BT are digging up pavements in our village to put the their own ducting to get their FTTP to everyone.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Interesting note, thanks David

MichaelG.

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P.S. ___ this [from the other team] may be interesting to Robin

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fttp-providers

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Deals will be done if the money is helping the accountant’s bonus. Typically a company will put out marketing in a street or area and see what the response is. They will have a threshold of a certain number of takers signing up to make it worth their while. That  is why sometimes you get a street with service and the street next to it doesn’t. It might pay you to talk to your neighbours.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

I have just watched an advert for Plusnet fibre, which is BT by another name. They are quoting an annual price increase of RPI + 3.9%. How greedy can this company be? Unbelievable!

[Norfolk BoyParticipant @norfolkboy]

“I also heard that they are not allowed to use the BT Openreach infrastructure.”

Not Quite, Openreach are obliged under PIA access (permitted infrastructur access) to allow competitors to use the existing BT infrastructure at agreed rates (minimal). If the ducts are congested then they do have to lay their own duct. Openreach are not allowed a reciprocal arrangement and cannot use another providers duct which means if they come along the same route they have to excavate yet again. So not everything you see is is what it appears to be.

Openreach general planning policy is to replicate existing copper, like for like in fibre. So if it is UG it goes UG again. If overhead exists then those routes will be used. This is not hard and fast as there are occasions when the road cannot be dug up (for various reasons) and overhead may be used although it is understood it’s controversial so last resort. Other service providers are not following the same rules hence the news items, which of course Openreach will get the blame for. The governing rules are that communications providers have the legal right to erect communications in the public highway. The council can only object if things like visibilty splays are impinged or other safety issues. If the area is an AONB (area of outstanding natural beauty) then planning consultation is required as is the New Forest where everything has to go before the Verderers.

 

[Chris Crew]

On Chris Crew Said:

… How greedy can this company be? …

About as greedy as Ofcom will let them

You may find this of interest:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/ban-on-inflation-linked-mid-contract-price-rise

… Looks like Ofcom might actually be waking-up.

MichaelG.

[Norfolk Boy]

Thanks for replies.

On Norfolk Boy Said:

“I also heard that they are not allowed to use the BT Openreach infrastructure.”

Not Quite, Openreach are obliged under PIA access (permitted infrastructure access) to allow competitors to use the existing BT infrastructure at agreed rates (minimal). If the ducts are congested then they do have to lay their own duct. Openreach are not allowed a reciprocal arrangement and cannot use another providers duct which means if they come along the same route they have to excavate yet again. So not everything you see is is what it appears to be.

[…]

 

I think this might get to the nub of the question, which was only half-formed in mind when I posted.  To put it another way:

I buy gas and electricity from Octopus Energy. These come to my house through pipes and wires which obviously aren’t owned by Octopus. If I switch supplier the new bods aren’t going to install new infrastructure. I  suppose they pay a fee to someone to use the existing pipes and wires. Is it the same with ISPs?

It seems not. The vans which turned up on my street had no identifying corporate logo.  Presumably they were subcontracted agents of Connect Fibre. From what Norfolk Boy says if Openreach want to establish a presence they will have to put in their own equivalent physical infrastructure alongside.  Crazy, but I can believe it. I hope I’m wrong.

On Michael Gilligan Said:

 

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P.S. ___ this [from the other team] may be interesting to Robin

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/fttp-providers

 

Thanks Michael. Interesting indeed. I share a postcode with the BT exchange across the road, so I selected them in the ‘address’ dropdown. Not yet available though they have Openreach vans trundling in and out all day.

My TalkTalk copper to cabinet gives me 75Mb/s download, 15Mb/s upload, landline and 10 email addresses for ~ £33 pcm.  Good enough for me, unless I have a sudden need for ‘seamless gaming’.

Connect Fibre doesn’t include landline or email.  I’ll probably just stick where I am and see how things evolve.

Some fog has cleared, thanks

Robin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David AmbroseParticipant @davidambrose86182]

Just to demonstrate how history repeats itself, I believe that the reason the GPO got the telephone monopoly was because all the different companies were digging up the roads and pavements for their own cables.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Most access providers can deliver broadband from a range of service providers and I think this may be a regulatory requirement.  So on an Openreach line you can subscribe to Vodafone, Sky, EE etc as well as BT. Likewise most offer voice over IP service and number portability so you can have a “fixed” phone if you want to.

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

Most access providers can deliver broadband from a range of service providers and I think this may be a regulatory requirement.  So on an Openreach line you can subscribe to Vodafone, Sky, EE etc as well as BT. Likewise most offer voice over IP service and number portability so you can have a “fixed” phone if you want to.

That’s broadly true, at least in theory, but I suspect what’s on the ground makes a difference.

My mum is a TalkTalk customer, but her connection is actually provided by BT.   When her phone went wrong, BT knew nothing about it, I had to report the fault to TalkTalk, who pass it on to BT, who send an OpenReach (BT) engineer out to climb the pole and fix it.   In her example, all the infrastructure between TalkTalk and mum is provided and maintained by BT.   This is a very common arrangement, and fairly easy to switch provider.

Next door gets his fibre network from an independent.   They’ve run a fibre cable from a box at the end of the road all the way into his home, and his original BT phone line is disconnected.   The fibre is strung between BT owned telegraph poles.   It’s not clear where the fibre connects to the internet.   Might link to a trunk laid along along the main road by the independent about a mile away, but there’s no sign of any road works or poles to support that.   I suspect it’s connected to a nearby BT Green Box, and uses BT’s internet backbone.  Other customers probably connect direct to the independents backbone, depending on what’s available locally.

The arrangement is complicated and I’ve no idea who fixes what when it breaks.  For example, if a car crashes into a pole, BT will fix my telephone wire, but I guess not my neighbour’s fibre because that belongs to someone else.   I don’t know what happens if my neighbour switches to another provider:  presumably, they re-use the existing fibre if they can, or lay a new one if they can’t.

A case of sins of the fathers I think.  In the good old days the GPO were an aggressive government owned monopoly, positively holding the British economy back by slow, expensive delivery of out-dated underperforming technology.   Not entirely their fault, because modernisation required the owner (government) to invest, which they were extremely reluctant to do, not least because tax cuts are much more popular than tax increases!   The answer was privatisation, which allowed BT to borrow money commercially, but only if they weren’t a monopoly.  Unfortunately, the monopoly was broken by creating a kind of artificial market: it mostly works,  but adds a lot of complexity, which customers hate when it goes wrong.  You ring up to complain about your phone, only to find complaints are managed by the English National Opera!   A similar approach was taken with many other public sector services.   Results have been mixed, the state of the railways is ‘quite interesting’!   Is it really sensible to run the Post Office and Royal Mail as two separate businesses?

The same issue occurs in commerce too.   Boeing are in the poo at the moment because their latest jet has been involved in too many embarrassing safety incidents.   Root cause appears to be quality control problems resulting from a decision to separate Boeing into two separate companies.

The original Boeing is now an assembler, and most of their manufacturing side was sold off.   Previously, Boeing had complete control of both operations, now they don’t.   After separation, it seems Boeing subjected the manufacturing side to cost-cutting, causing a relationship problems with their key supplier.  They aren’t friends!

Boeing remain wholly responsible for the safety of their aircraft, but now have to deal with a third party, who may or may not be responsible for quality control.   What should be confirmed during manufacture, or assembly, or both isn’t clear, and having sold the manufacturing arm off, Boeing have no direct control over it.  The separation, intended to save money, has instead created a massive problem.   Boeing as assembler, and the ex-Boeing manufacturing side, are both technically competent, but separating them appears to be a bad command and control mistake.

Be interesting to see what happens: I wouldn’t be surprised to see Boeing trying to buy manufacturing back.  That’s likely to cost them a bomb because the manufacturing arm is worth whatever Boeing are prepared to pay for it, and Boeing are over a barrel.

It’s an interesting example of how solving one problem creates another.

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Openreach is no longer a BT subsidiary I think.  If BT provide your service they have to raise a support request with OR if you report a fault. Likewise Talktalk.

[Norfolk BoyParticipant @norfolkboy]

” I suspect it’s connected to a nearby BT Green Box, and uses BT’s internet backbone. ”

No and Yes. An Openreach fibre (FTTP) will return to a 32 way splitter (passive) usually within 200metres or so depending on density of housing. The incoming side of the passive splitter will then go all the way back to a headend. Headends are geographically about 15 miles or so apart in rural counties. The fibre plugs into the backbone of the the internet at these points Via an SFP (small form factor pluggable) connector converting light to electrical signals which are then in turn combined to go on a few fibres for redundancy and bandwidth back to a central point.

Some providers connect into openreach head ends some of the bigger providers have their own. It’s about cost, volume and reselling at all points. Independent networks use their own local green boxes due to their technology design.

The design of Openreach network is different to other operators (wholesale in this context) so they have no capability to repair other operators equipment. If infrastructure is damaged and as a result network of any party is damaged it will be the wholsale providers responsibility. So in openreach case both infrastructure and network is repaired other wholesale provider wait until infrastructure repaired then repair their network.

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

Openreach is no longer a BT subsidiary I think.  If BT provide your service they have to raise a support request with OR if you report a fault. Likewise Talktalk.

Openreach is a separate company with its own board of directors, but remains a wholly owned subsidiary of BT Group. But it is constrained ( by law?) to treat the Business and Consumer pieces of BT in exactly the same way as it treats other ISP’s who buy its capabilities.

So you are correct. If BT provides your service, you need to contact them and they raise the issue with  Openreach. If Talk Talk is the supplier, then you raise the issue with them and they communicate  with Openreach.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Changed to Truespeed a couple of years ago from BT on which we were getting about 10Mb/sec.

Truespeed 80Mb for less than BT offered for their pathetic speed. (BT didn’t offer Fibre at all)

Truespeed is FTTP.

Includes Anytime calls (up to an hour a time)

Router and installation included.

So far been well pleased with Truespeed (we are Somerset)

Bill D.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Bill

I am glad you are happy with Truespeed.

Their contractors arrived, without notice, one afternoon in the autumn and started digging the close (cul-de-sac) I live in. Most residents managed to get their cars back home although one used my double drive. Next day they finished what little they had done. The work was poor with, in some places, the bitumen capping of trenches cracking and lifting.

Next week they again arrived without warning and dug a trench across the entrance of the close.

In early January Truespeed finally gave us warning, with dates, of more work. They did not arrive. A week later new contractors came and corrected the initial bad work.

For this we have been offered a 25% discount.

JA

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

It all seems a bit of a mess. near us there are many people unhappy with the proliferation of new poles. I suspect some of these new companies will go bust.

[JA]

On JA Said:

Bill

I am glad you are happy with Truespeed.

Their contractors arrived, without notice, one afternoon in the autumn and started digging the close (cul-de-sac) I live in. Most residents managed to get their cars back home although one used my double drive. Next day they finished what little they had done. The work was poor with, in some places, the bitumen capping of trenches cracking and lifting.

Next week they again arrived without warning and dug a trench across the entrance of the close.

In early January Truespeed finally gave us warning, with dates, of more work. They did not arrive. A week later new contractors came and corrected the initial bad work.

For this we have been offered a 25% discount.

JA

We had to i would say mid 20’s guy’s working for BT putting in new Fibre ducts to say the work was poor would be understatement all the corner was grass maybe not the best grass but it was green. spoke to my local council the chap I spoke to said he had had many complaint across the borough he also went on to say the council had very few powers to order remedial and that the council had little money for this sort of thing and it would possibly not get done.

H

 

<script src=”moz-extension://47cb7401-7907-4033-9172-9608686fb294/js/app.js” type=”text/javascript”></script>

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

<p class=”bsp-quote-title”>Boeing are in the poo at the moment because their latest jet has been involved in too many embarrassing safety incidents.   Root cause appears to be quality control problems resulting from a decision to separate Boeing into two separate companies.</p>

Not to mention designing a door plug that fits from the outside (where the cabin pressure tends to blow it out and makes it susceptible to indifferent servicing) rather than the inside (where the cabin pressure tends to make it a tighter fit).

But, ah the bottom line.

 

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Where I live we actually have two separate installations of fibre, one for Virgin Media was installed a few years ago, then City Fibre installed a separate fibre network about eighteen months ago.  With the price increase I dropped BT and switched to Gigabit Fibre who use the City Fibre network. When talking to BT about switching they couldn’t give a date when full fibre would be available in my area and still can’t. I know City Fibre are using the BT conduit where they can to install fibre in some areas.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Doing the rounds for value.

Originally had to go to cable many years ago due to Industry next door blocking TV signal, 44 F1 cars on grid and result was always a dead heat between two cars from same team. Original supply was BB, land line and BASIC TV.

Original supplier was Yorkshire Cable, this became Telewest and then Virgin. Due to yearly increases “”To Maintain Existing Service,” TV was chopped but again, service charges reached a point where Virgin were told to go and self procreate. We then changed over to the then fledgling Talk Talk, 11 moggies BB and LL only on a fixed price for duration of contract basis and to be fair, (at that time) this was honoured. After the initial contract, there was to be a price increase of £6 per month, problem was, they were advertising Fast Fibre cheaper, sooo, “Lets have FF” ‘Yes Sir, no problem’ and an ‘Installation’ date given. Come the day and “Errr,, we can’t supply due to BTs supply box that serves you, doesn’t have a fibre connection AND NEVER WILL HAVE”

This created a stay of execution due to slow speed BB connection and original price was maintained. Problem arose when account name and direct debit payer had to be changed due to my wifes demise, she was original customer. As far as Yackety Yack  were concerned, this created a ‘New’ account and ‘New’ contract price, this to be the pre ‘fibre’ increase they’d tried. Another trouble was, in the mean time, they’d adopted the ‘Big Boys’ legalised yearly rip off.  Tolerated this for 12 months but when an increase to over £30 for 11 mogs and unreliable drop out service was demanded, TT was told to B****r off B****r Off.

Shell then came on the scene with a lower than £20 service, again BT supplied, but when 12 month contract came up for renewal, it was to be over £30 for an 11Mb service (which we know is only between 2 and 5) but was regularly timed at 0.02. Luckily, an “Independent” Fibre supplier was flooding the area with poles and Fibre lines at a two year ‘Fixed’ price for less than Shell price and a 100 moggy speed, Guess what. Don’t really need Warp factor 27 for T’internet but we’ll see what happens in December 2025 (iF i’m still stealing Air)

“Gipsys Tramps and Thieves, Double Glazing salesmen and ISPs”

 

Regards  Ian

 

 

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On Chris Crew Said:

… How greedy can this company be? …

About as greedy as Ofcom will let them

You may find this of interest:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/ban-on-inflation-linked-mid-contract-price-rise

… Looks like Ofcom might actually be waking-up.

MichaelG.

Apparently I spoke too soon ^^^
See today’s Guardian

Virgin Media O2 customers are facing a “lose-lose choice” between the highest mid-contract broadband and mobile price rises, or crippling exit fees running into hundreds of pounds, the consumer group Which? has warned.

Virgin Media and O2, which merged in 2021, are scheduled to go ahead with price rises of up to 8.8% this April – the latest retail prices index figure of 4.9%, plus an extra 3.9%.

 

MichaelG.

[Author]

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