Floating Reamer Holder

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Hi

For those interested in DIY tooling, I made a Floating Reamer Holder, something I'd been wanting to build for a while, a tool making competition motivated me to get it done and enter the competition.

Part of the competition is to create a video of your tool, have a story line, show it being made and used.

This is my video for anyone interested.

I made it so that it can be used for drilling as well as reaming, I've used it a few times and it's been great, surprising the difference in getting an accurate reamed hole. I know there's more to it than just reamer alignment but this at least address one aspect.

Here's a picture of the tool, it's the bronze looking bit.

I used a chuck because I mostly use chucking reamers. I do have a few larger reamers with morse taper shanks so now have an idea how I can make a similar tool for those.

All made fro donated scrap off cuts, the best material for DIY tooling.

The tool making competition is #TMC2020

Nigel

Edited By tractionengine42 on 19/06/2020 20:20:21

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

come drilling chuck

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Splendid. A product of some fine engineering skill! Was the ally bronze made to fit a standard ‘C’ spanner? Or are you going to make one (just to finish off the job).🙂

Let’s be seeing the Morse taper part, next, please. I’d like to see how it is done, with a view to making one myself (but nowhere near as easy/good as yours) – if I ever get round tuit!

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Excellent video and tool, first time I have watched a video of this type to the end well done.

[Henry BrownParticipant @henrybrown95529]

Great video, hope it did well! A project I quite fancy doing sometime as I remember using them but they don't seem to b so popular these days. Great Idea putting the chuck on it.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

A really great idea. Thanks for sharing.

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

A good video and some excellent workmanship in creating this tool. However, although the tool is of an interesting design, it appears to be overly complex, and in that I refer to the provision of 'azimuth displacement' effected by the roll of the head by using a ball bearing / pad design. The axial displacement is all that one 'should' need unless the lathe is hopelessly out of alignment.

The use of the chuck also puts a lot of mass outboard of the flexible joint – notice the drop of the reamer as it exits the hole. Surely the use of single split collets allows for a simpler design and a lower mass of the moving parts. A very simple and effective design is the old Buck & Hickman model 20BA.

Overall a very nice machining job though, congratulations!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

I deliberately made mine with plenty of clearance, between the body, and the four capscrews which effectively stop the reamer holders from rotating within the body..

For Hand reamers the body uses ER 25 collets.

For machine reamers, i made up some ER 32 collets with 1MT, 2MT and 3 MT bores. Being a coward, the MT collets are only slit from one end, but they seem to grip well enough to do the job; so far!

Howard

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

notice the drop of the reamer as it exits the hole.

Is it not bound to drop? I would not expect anything else. Especially if the designed-in clearance for reamer lateral movement happens to be in the vertical plane?

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Surely, the whole purpose of having the reamer float is so that it can follow the existing hole, rather than be off centre and act as a boring bar?

Consequently, the reamer can move off centre and will drop by the amount of "float" when it leaves the hole.

That has never caused me any qualms or problems, or have I been lucky?

Howard..

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

NDIY –

"Is it not bound to drop? I would not expect anything else"

Well yes – I'm not surprised it drops with all the mass of the chuck outboard of the 'swivel' mechanism. I would be concerned that a drop like that could, and I emphasise this is only conjecture on my part, cause a 'bell mouthing' at the end of the hole if the withdrawal rate was lethargic enough.

It's the need for the swivel mechanism I am questioning – surely a half decent machine has the headstock and tailstock in a reasonable parallel axial alignment I do not see why you would want a swivel – but if there is a good reason for a swivel I would have considered the need to keep outboard mass and overhang down to a reasonable level. An 'Albrecht style ' chuck is a heavy piece of kit.

It would be nice to see a small split collet arrangement similar to the old B&H model 20BA

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Thanks everyone for your interest and complimentary feedback. My post seems to have stimulated some discussion, all great stuff.

There's a few points i'd like to clarify/respond to which I will do once I have had a chance to digest all the replies.

Meanwhile I have a Lion Loco to build, so I'll catch up with you all fairly shortly.

Cheers

Nigel

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by not done it yet on 19/06/2020 23:56:29:

Splendid. A product of some fine engineering skill! Was the ally bronze made to fit a standard ‘C’ spanner? Or are you going to make one (just to finish off the job).🙂

I have a hinged type C spanner that can be used on different diameters, really useful, It's like this one

Nigel

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by Oily Rag on 20/06/2020 10:41:18:

A good video and some excellent workmanship in creating this tool. However, although the tool is of an interesting design, it appears to be overly complex, and in that I refer to the provision of 'azimuth displacement' effected by the roll of the head by using a ball bearing / pad design. The axial displacement is all that one 'should' need unless the lathe is hopelessly out of alignment.

The use of the chuck also puts a lot of mass outboard of the flexible joint – notice the drop of the reamer as it exits the hole. Surely the use of single split collets allows for a simpler design and a lower mass of the moving parts. A very simple and effective design is the old Buck & Hickman model 20BA.

Overall a very nice machining job though, congratulations!

I have noticed some angular alignment issues in my set up with reamer/drills deflecting as they enter a previously drilled hole, so I included the ball to try and address this. I did wonder whether the mass of a chuck would be detrimental, approaching this as a hobbyist I thought it was worth a try, the tool was an experiment and for sure could be improved.

I based my design upon a commercial product I was shown some time ago which was just as "floppy" as my design and I was told it had some angular freedom of movement as well as radial. While I didn't get the finer detail of it's design this is my best guess how it worked as far as I can fathom, my design achieves, as best as I can, the same result as the commercial one I was shown.

You got me thinking and it would be possible to move the pivot point in front og the taper on the collar/chuck carrier, the tool works very well for what I want so I'm not inclined to spend any more time on it.

Other than the one I was shown I'm not familiar with any other designs and didn't look into it, my aim was to replicate the commercial one I was shown and saw working.

Thanks for some interesting feedback.

Nigel

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by Oily Rag on 20/06/2020 15:07:50:

NDIY –

It would be nice to see a small split collet arrangement similar to the old B&H model 20BA

Thanks for the picture that explains allot of what your are saying.

I would like to also make a Floating Reamer Holder for taper shank reamers, you've given me some food for thought.

Cheers

Nigel

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

Nigel,

Thanks for your responses above and more importantly thank you for accepting my criticism in a positive way. I would hasten to add that the machining performed by you was exemplary and I would have been thrilled to make something with anywhere near as the detail you have shown.

BTW, can I ask what mill you have? It looked from the brief view of the table like a Deckel FP2.

Best of luck in the competition!

Martin

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Hi Oily Rag

My go to mill is a a Deckel FP1 circa 1947 amazingly accurate inspite of it's age, one of my few indulgences. An Elliot Shaper and Omni-mill are my other prides of joy. Unfortunately my lathe is not in that category but adequate.

Cheers

Nigel

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Unfortunately my lathe is not in that category but adequate.

Being a bit of the devil here – does that indicate it is a more modern lathe of far eastern manufacture?😈

My kit is mostly ‘old iron’ – the only far eastern items being tooling, the rotary tables being the largest items.

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by not done it yet on 21/06/2020 11:33:55:

Unfortunately my lathe is not in that category but adequate.

Being a bit of the devil here – does that indicate it is a more modern lathe of far eastern manufacture?😈

Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head. My lathe is good for the money and got me into the hobby, it's 20 years old now so no complaints. So far a good old iron lathe has eluded me. When you move to a rigid machine the difference is outstanding.

Nigel

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by tractionengine42 on 20/06/2020 17:14:52:

Thanks everyone for your interest and complimentary feedback. My post seems to have stimulated some discussion, all great stuff.

There's a few points i'd like to clarify/respond to which I will do once I have had a chance to digest all the replies.

Meanwhile I have a Lion Loco to build, so I'll catch up with you all fairly shortly.

Cheers

Nigel

 

I can attest that the Lion build series is fantastic – i enjoy watching it very much !
I really should get off my lazy butt and make your floating reamer / tap holder although i would need to make an adapter to fit my morse taper reamers or modify the design to fit them .

Ian.

Edited By XD 351 on 21/06/2020 14:19:22

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Thanks Ian

Great to hear your enjoying my Lion build on YouTube, it's quite a big effort to do the videos so your interest is much appreciated.

Cheers

Nigel

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I've not built a floating reamer holder (as yet) – but there are certainly a few published designs around to choose from.

I've watched a number of YouTubes on this subject, mostly from the usual suspects and there does seem to be general consensus that they work. However, on one of the videos (I don't think it was the one referred to here) the holder really did "flop" all over the place, which frankly surprised me, as (somehow) I expected a bit more 'control'.

Having too much 'flop' seems a bit counter-intuitive. I think I'd expect the holder to move axially (a wee bit) but still be constrained in other directions. I haven't actually checked but I suspect the various designs I'm thinking of might reflect slightly differing views on this matter on the part of their designers too.

Any actual experience here of building one of the published designs and your thoughts as to its effectiveness (e.g. Did it work and was it worth it?)

Regards,

IanT

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Ian T

You sound as if you would be horrified by my floating reamer holders. Deliberately, I made the ER25 and ER32 holders with 0.010" clearance in the body; and the four capscrews that retain the ER holders, also have a 0.010" clearance. So the collet holders do flop around all over the place.

The lead in chamfer on the end of the reamer picks up on the hole, and guides it in without any side force in any plane. The only non axial force present is that due to gravity, which acts on the reamer, the ER collet, and the collet holder, so minimising, as much as possible, the effect.

As far as I can tell, the device does what is required of it.

If everything were perfectly aligned, Headstock, Tailstock, Reamer, and all tapers, there would be no need, but few of us can claim to have perfect machines and tooling, (Certainly not in the realms of hobby equipment. )

Howard

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

Floating Reamer holders are a standard production requirement so industry recognises the need to 'follow the previous operation' to give accurate hole sizes. In many instances the reaming operation may well be done on a 'chucking' lathe whereas the pre-op of drilling was done on a capstan. Therefore the use of a floating reamer allows for the discrepancies between different machines, and also allows us to take advantage of less than industrial machinery!

Its similar in bore honing, the hone is 'floating' and it follows the pre-boring process – if the borer is out of kilter the hone will not correct the bore. Honing was always considered to be a 'surface finishing / treatment' rather than a true machining operation. Something I learnt along time ago in the Motor Industry!

[Roger BParticipant @rogerb61624]

I have an Angst floating reamer holder like this:

**LINK**

It has an adjustable centering spring to control 'droop' when used in a turret/automatic machine.

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