Dummy Rivets

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

If I really do want to insert some cosmetic snap head rivets into a buffer beam with no access at the back for a countersink – what is the best technique – a blind hole and Loctite? Or sit down in a dark room for an hour and stop counting rivets on the real engines?

Phil H

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

A bit rash. Loctite is the obvious way but now you've posted everyone will know you didn't fit them first.

Neil

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

An alternative might be hammer -drive rivets, steel, round head rivets with a fast helix on the shank to secure them. Available in a range of sizes, but you'll need to match the head size with the existing rivets, otherwise they'll stick out like sore thumbs.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 17/10/2017 11:13:29

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Yes I would agree with using an adhesive of sorts as well as riveting pop rivets blind, the fit on them isn't always that secure with just a rivet.

Otherwise, depending on how much material you can sink into, you could turn some custom dummie heads with a taper pin on the back, of course you'd need a taper pin reamer as well to make the seat, but that's the only other way I can think of doing that. 

Edited By Michael-w on 17/10/2017 12:21:19

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Depending on size and material types how about splitting the rivet shaft, insetting a wedge so when you hammer it in the shaft expands?

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Thanks chaps so far. The rivets are likely to be 3/64" diameter so that limits my options. I was thinking of some form of interference e.g., drill the hole as normal and perhaps crimping the rivet shaft. This might give sufficient space for the glue and a tight mechanical fit.

I guess my question is for a product like Loctite – is the best approach for an optimum joint to have a nice clean hole and nice round shaft or will a crimped shaft work better?

Phil H

[Bob YouldonParticipant @bobyouldon45599]

Hi Phil,

Having done it in the past with 3/64" rivets drill a 3/64" hole if posable right through drop a little high strength Loctite in the hole with a pin and pop the rivet in, it may pay to ensure the rivets are free from grease and oil, give then a wash in a drop of soppy water rinse and dry them on a tin lid on the cooker, it'll work every time, don't worry if there's a spot of surplus loctite around the head, wait for it to go off and clean the job up with a rotary wire brush.

Regards,

Bob

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I have been looking for that' 'Soppy water' for ages. Let us know where you get it Bob.

Clive

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

EKP fasteners do slot less round head screws in BA sizes link

H

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

If the round head screws are slot less and going into a blind hole, Phil h states no acces at the back, how are the screws driven into a tapped hole?

Dave

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Posted by Samsaranda on 17/10/2017 20:34:36:

If the round head screws are slot less and going into a blind hole, Phil h states no acces at the back, how are the screws driven into a tapped hole?

Dave

Dave after making sure the tapped hole had a good thread and was clear I used a pencil with a rubber on the end, a slight counter sink helped

H

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

The round head slot less screws are a good idea but they would need to be smaller than 12BA. Sound like a great idea for larger scale engines.

Thanks for all the help chaps. I will think about whether I should add the extra detail and use the very clean hole, and Loctite described by Bob if I decide to go for it. I will of course post pictures in the future – either way.

Phil H

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Is there no way of fitting them before attaching the buffer beam?

Neil

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

pressed wrong button!

Edited By duncan webster on 17/10/2017 22:30:56

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Neil – sorry no.

If you look at most steam locomotive pictures, there is usually a line of rivets very close to the top of the beam. On many model engines at say 3 1/2" gauge, the beam is angle so the rivet hole would go into the angle web – so the drill never breaks through (hope that makes sense).

Options are;

– leave them out and don't worry – as most models – so who would criticise anybody for omitting them? After all, building an engine to the model drawings and finishing the model is an achievement.

– perhaps use a thicker plate for the beam as some 5" gauge engines and change the model design slightly i.e., shorten the frames slightly and mill the extreme ends to look thinner.

– Use glue as suggested.

Phil H

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