Dumb question from a none driver

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Hi,

I just bought a used car for my son. Paid for locally with cash.Being a none driver all my life  i know virtually nothing about cars. What i want to know is that the car needs to have me as the registered owner (for reasons i dont want to get into) but my son will be the registered keeper of the vehicle,responsible for driving it insurance etc..

Ive looked online but it keeps going on about registered keepers mainly.

We were given the logbook V5C, etc..

What do i do to register as the owner???

Thanks Mark

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:39

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:26:33

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:27:37

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

No such thing as a Registered Owner.

 

Although Registered Keeper doesn’t mean said person is the owner of the vehicle.

 

Confusing………you bet

 

The owner is generally the person who paid for the car, which could also be the registered keeper

 

Confusing……..you bet.

 

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 31/08/2019 00:37:32

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Alan, why have you repeated my post?

Mark

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:32:38:

Alan, why have you repeated my post?

Mark

Ipad and fat fingers……..sorted now

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Well thats whats confusing me. How do i prove im the owner if needed?

My son  has insured it and taxed it today..

And i assume he has to send off the relevant part of the V5C to the DVLA?

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:40:12

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:43:12

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:44:55

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:39:53:

Well thats whats confusing me. How do i prove im the owner if needed?

My son has insured it and taxed it today..

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:40:12

Did you get a receipt in your name when you bought it ? If so that’s your proof. No one will ever ask for proof unless there is a dispute over ownership between you and your son. And yes the seller should have filled in the existing V5c with your sons details (if he was to become registerd keeper), and sent of to DVLA Your son will receive a new V5c in his name in due course. 

 

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 31/08/2019 00:48:59

[Bill Davies 2Participant @billdavies2]

Hi, Mark.

with reference to: https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q743.htm

Essentially, your son is the keeper (the user), and would be fined for, say, speeding.

You are the owner, but not the keeper, so you would be advised to have your son as named keeper, to avoid paying for such offences.

Ownership is a separate issue, and would be proven in a different way. For example, if you had the seller sign something to say ownership is transferred to you, or alternatively, there would be evidence of a bank payment to the seller.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

The registered keeper will receive any money demands (fines, due to speeding, parking, etc) along with convictions if the car is used without proper insurance or with road-going defects. DVLA don’t care to differentiate between owner and driver – any road traffic summonses will initially be sent directly to the owner/keeper – as far as they are concerned.

Regarding driving the car, the insurance company will require the name(s) of the driver(s). Clearly, if you don’t drive, you won’t be named on the insurance to drive the vehicle. Any ‘cheating’ on this matter usually means that a claim will be denied by the insurance company, if they can possibly get out of it. Seems like you may be taking a large risk with your car/money if the ‘reasons ‘you don’t want to get into’ are at all a bit tenuous.

The only way around this is a binding contract between yourself and your son, I would think.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:12:

Hi,

I just bought a used car for my son. Paid for locally with cash.Being a none driver all my life i know virtually nothing about cars. What i want to know is that the car needs to have me as the registered owner (for reasons i dont want to get into) but my son will be the registered keeper of the vehicle,responsible for driving it insurance etc..

Ive looked online but it keeps going on about registered keepers mainly.

We were given the logbook V5C, etc..

What do i do to register as the owner???

 

.

I think you have posed an unanswerable question, Mark

You apparently wish [need?] to do something for which the DVLA system makes no provision.

… I have emboldened some of the difficult parts of your opening post.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: To add to the confusion …

This page claims to tell you how to transfer ownership:

https://www.cornerpark.co.uk/blog/how-to-transfer-ownership-of-your-vehicle/

… but is actually about keeper not owner.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2019 08:05:39

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

O.K. … Here it is … The clearest statement I can find: **LINK**

The Differences Between The Registered Keeper And Owner Of A Vehicle

MichaelG.

.

Edit: but even there ^^^ they confuse, in these bullet points [towards the bottom of the page]

 If you want to request information about the registered keeper of a vehicle from the DVLA, you will need to have ‘reasonable cause’. This may be the case when you want to find out who:

• Was responsible for causing an accident
• Is the owner of a vehicle that has been abandoned
• Is the owner of a vehicle that has been parked illegally on private land
• Should be issued parking tickets
• Is responsible for driving off after not paying for goods or services
• Is the owner of a vehicle that is suspected of insurance fraud

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2019 08:18:50

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Simply, the OWNER is the person that originally purchased the car from new at first registration.

Everybody else that puts their name on the V5 is the REGISTERED KEEPER.

In your case, your sons name should be on the V5 with him being responsible for obtaining the Vehicle Excise Duty or Road Tax, for want of a better definition.

YOU will never be the OWNER of that vehicle.

REgards

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, only the registered keeper has to be on the VC5 document, however the VC5 document is not proof of ownership of the vehicle. As MichaelG has pointed out, there is no provision for the DVLA to know who the owner is, their only concern is who is responsible for registering and taxing it, which will be the keeper and therefore will be the person who they will contact for the tax and any fines etc. Ownership will be a legal matter you need to deal with another way, i.e. proof of purchase as in receipts and maybe the services of a solicitor. The insurance company may want to know who the owner is though. The only advice I can give you, is to contact a solicitor about the matter/s you are concerned with. Remember motoring law is not the same as the highway code and the highway code does not cover all aspects of motoring law. The Police of course, will issue the keeper with speeding tickets etc. and if you were not driving it at the time of the offence, you will have to tell them who was. It is a criminal offence if you take the fall for someone else's offence.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 08:36:40

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by FMES on 31/08/2019 08:11:10:

Simply, the OWNER is the person that originally purchased the car from new at first registration.

 

.

Sorry, but … Whilst that may be simple, it is illogical

The OWNER of anything, can sell it on … at which point OWNERSHIP transfers.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2019 08:29:53

[Anonymous]

If there is a dispute over ownership then it's up to the parties involved to prove they actually own the vehicle, sales receipt, agreement signed by the keeper that it's a loan vehicle etc. That's all civil law.

Road traffic law is a different kettle of fish, first question to the driver is "is this your vehicle" if the driver says it's owned by someone else, no matter who the keeper listed is, then the owner can also be liable for offences committed.

You can Use, Cause or Permit offences e.g. driver gets stopped for a duff tyre he is Using the vehicle, the owner is also liable – Permitting the use with a duff tyre. Doesn't matter who the keeper of the vehicle is other than being responsible for declaring who the driver was at a certain time when officially asked ,verbally or written .

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

I'd think you just need a piece of paper with some writing on it from the previous owner that says he sold it to you that'll stand up in court (such as a signed receipt detailing the goods), and be prepared to affirm that it's yours and you didn't gift it to your son.

You could probably get a solicitor to draw something up for you, but it'd cost you and wouldn't strictly be necessary.

My parents gave their piano to my missus whilst they were still alive, but we didn't have room to keep it where we lived then, so they had something drawn up to say it was already hers so that it wouldn't be taxed as part of their estate on probate. In the event, I don't think we ever had to show it anybody.

Edited By Mick B1 on 31/08/2019 08:42:01

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi FMES, I have to agree with MichaelG, the owner is the last person who legally purchased the vehicle, as in my case I am the third person to own the car that I have, the second one being the reputable motor dealer that I purchased it from.

Regards Nick.

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Surely the answer is simple ,the person who bought and paid for the car and has a receipt is the owner .The person named on the V5 C is the registered keeper.This does need to be the same person.

The insurance company might want to know who the owner is but DVLA won’t .

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Regarding ownership of cars most cars on the road are not owned by driver ,they are owned by finance company ,bank etc.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mick B1 on 31/08/2019 08:40:46:

I'd think you just need a piece of paper with some writing on it from the previous owner that says he sold it to you that'll stand up in court (such as a signed receipt detailing the goods), and be prepared to affirm that it's yours and you didn't gift it to your son.

…

I agree with Mick, except perhaps the 'piece of paper' may not need to involve the previous owner. But it depends on the problem Mark wants to solve, for example:

1. Mark's concern is, having bought a car for cash, and not got a receipt, that the previous owner might report it stolen and reclaim the car. If he has paperwork and Mark doesn't then… Fixing that needs the previous owner to sign a simple document (like a receipt) that shows he has relinquished ownership. OR
2. There's a family or other reason for recording that the car belongs to Mark and is only on loan to his son. In that case a I think a simple statement to that effect signed and dated by both parties would be enough.

How important this is to fix depends on the value of the car : if it's an old banger worth less than £1000, the risk is low and Mark could write the money off if the arrangement goes sour. Much more painful if the car cost £30,000. The emotional value may be important too, a family falling out over money will probably be agonising.

The owner and keeper of a vehicle being different people is very common – Hire Cars, Lease arrangements and Company Cars etc. But in these cases, the owner has records proving he owns the car, and there will be terms and conditions signed off by the driver as well.

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, Maurice, Finance company yes, bank not necessarily. If you buy a car with a bank loan and with exception of any T&C's to the contrary, you own that item and you are at liberty to sell it at anytime you like and you can let the loan run its term. If you buy an item with a Finance company you don't own the item until you have paid an agreed amount and you are not at liberty to sell it during the term of the finance, but you may get consent from the finance company to do so, but it is unlikely, however if you do get consent you may well have to pay a penalty.

Regards Nick.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by FMES on 31/08/2019 08:11:10:

Simply, the OWNER is the person that originally purchased the car from new at first registration.

Everybody else that puts their name on the V5 is the REGISTERED KEEPER.

In your case, your sons name should be on the V5 with him being responsible for obtaining the Vehicle Excise Duty or Road Tax, for want of a better definition.

YOU will never be the OWNER of that vehicle.

REgards

No, that's patently absurd. When you buy a car and take it away ownership is legally transferred to you. It's nothing to do with V5 although a receipt is a good idea to help in any dispute…

Ownership is chiefly proven by possession and control.

You buy the car and drive it away, it's yours. You don't legally need a receipt to prove it.

Allow your son to be the keeper and ownership becomes a question of his word against yours if there is any dispute and there is no written agreement.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:12:

Hi,

I just bought a used car for my son. Paid for locally with cash.Being a none driver all my life i know virtually nothing about cars. What i want to know is that the car needs to have me as the registered owner (for reasons i dont want to get into) but my son will be the registered keeper of the vehicle,responsible for driving it insurance etc..

Ive looked online but it keeps going on about registered keepers mainly.

We were given the logbook V5C, etc..

What do i do to register as the owner???

Thanks Mark

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:39

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:26:33

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:27:37

This seems to have caused a great deal of confusion on here.

You say you bought the car for your son….so presumably he accepted it as gift and by law he is the owner. Did you put this on paper or was it just verbal?

He has put his name as the registered keeper on the V5 which is normal whether you own the car or not.

Insurance proposal forms will ask who the actual owner is ( this could be you, your son, finance company, bank or leasing company) and who is the registered keeper. To my knowledge that's the only time you're asked for this information. But as you gave the car to your son, he is the owner and keeper. Unless there is something you haven't disclosed in your question.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Thanks for all the replies,OK i`ll go into a little more detail.

My son has got himself into quite a lot of debt, he works full time but has to commute around 20 miles each way to work.

His debt is being dealt with officially through the CAB and the conditions are that he cant have a car with an value over £1000 . The car cost me £700, its actually a Corsavan , but it was quite a good deal and the value is likely to over £1000 for used value.

His previous car wouldnt have passed the MOT so he was in a bit of a mess. Cant get to work/lose job.

I decided to buy the vehicle for him but as the owner. He is the keeper , hes already sorted insurance and tax out whilst i was present so no worries about that ,and his insurance turned out almost half of what he was previous paying for the car.

All i really need is something to prove that i bought the vehicle and not my son. Just in case someone from CAB wants proof that my son doesnt own it.

I get on well with my son so not worried about anything like disputes with him.

I have read some of the links given above and read somewhere that the seller should maybe have did some sort of transfer of ownership thing and destroyed the rest of the V5C and then the DVLA would send out a new one to either me or my son? Thoroughly confused.

So should i just ask the seller to sign a receipt or something. The V5C document has the sellers details on it.

 

Thanks Mark

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 10:27:34

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