Drummond M series

[Carlos Silva 1Participant @carlossilva1]

Hi all,

 

I just got the option to buy an earlier M series Drummond lathe.

 

I am a beginner and I would like to ask someone experienced if it seems something worth to bother. I realise there are a few pieces missing and that I may need to get a few more gears to get it working. There is also no electric motor fitted. Asking price £300.

 

Does it seems like a good deal or shall I look for something else

 

Many Thanks

 

Edited By JasonB on 26/08/2013 13:53:19

[Carlos Silva 1Participant @carlossilva1]

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi Carlos,

It looks like it has been nicely rstored, but it appears to be an early version of an old fashioned design. I suggest you read **LINK** and http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummond/page6.html and then decide if you can live with its idiosyncracies.

I am sure there will be someone on the forum who has (and regularly uses) one of these lathes who can let you have a more personal perspective.

Neil

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 26/08/2013 14:43:48

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The backgear eccentric is there but there's no headstock bearing locknuts…hmm

The toolpost is a myford, not a drummond

Flatbelt more awkward than a v-pulley, implies an older version

It "looks" pretty good but there's definitely a few issues there and for a newbie the headstock bearing issue could drive you nuts trying to sort it out

or… It might have the decent bearings system.. but the essential bits are missing… lol

 

A pity really but there's no way of telling without being there in person

For 300 quid I'd wait and ask about another opportunity, a WW2 v-belt is best

Don't worry about an M series which looks like crap, they are built like a T-34 tank and clean up nice in only a few days

At 200 quid it would be worth it for the spare parts if it was a dog and you are a serious M-series user, but as a newbie you really want one which you can play with from day one

So from the pictures there's no sure way of telling

(There's plenty of useful bits on it though)

Edited By Ady1 on 26/08/2013 15:39:46

Theres one on a well known site at the moment which looks the biz

Myford lathe type 'm'

But no tray and legs….

Edited By Ady1 on 26/08/2013 15:46:39

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Nice paint job but that doesn't improve the lathe. IMHO it is poor value for money.

Keep a look out and you'll find some better bargains such as this as long as the price doesn't go above about £300. But then I might be biased as I have one!

Russell.

[Carlos Silva 1Participant @carlossilva1]

Thanks for all the comments,

I am not so sure about the condition under the paint.
Some parts seem to be heavily corroded, the gears have been replaced and the bearings… well, how can I know they are okay when I am there personally? Any tests I could do?

That part where the cutting tool goes, can I find tools for it? Most modern age lathes have a square one, Any advice in what tools I need will be helpful. I also believe I need a few more gears for to make threads.

In regards to the lathe, the asking price is £150 (sorry for the mistake) and it does not come with the motor, only what is pictured. Price seems okay to me, my question is manly how much more money will I need to spend to make it workable and if the time and effort associated are really worth it or if I will be better trying to get something a bit more modern.

PS: I am from London and most that I can find are way too far. This one is 50 miles away, so obviosuly this is another factor to add to the overal costs

Many Thanks

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi carlos,

the late dennis chaddock and the late bill carter had only flat bed drummonds and produced the most superb exhibition winning models.

if it were a round bed drummond i would be hesitant, but flat bed drummond (at that price) is well worth acquiring.

cheers,

julian

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

For that price, it looks a better deal.

I think it's the rather peculiar pre-1924 toolholder, rather than a Myford one. I'd suggest fitting amore modern toolholder, but keep the original one – it may be worth more than £150 one day!

Neil

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I have a 1937-ish Drummond M type and it is a great little lathe. Before World War 2 the M-type was the standard machine for model engineers, so they were well up to the task. It was the Myford of its day, and indeed the basis of the modern Myford. Most important is the condition of the ways on the bed and cross slide. If they are worn out, expensive regrinding is the only way to fix it (assuming scraping is beyond the capabilities of the beginner)

I see them on eBay UK quite often for low prices, 100-300 pounds. Parts also are often advertised on eBay UK. The metric threading gears are hard to find but the others easy enough to come by for anywhere from a few quid to 10 or 12 on eBay. Your main expense will probably the electric motor and the tooling such as four jaw chuck, centres, driving plate, tool bits, drilling chuck etc etc. It is always cheaper if you can get these with the lathe.

The lathe in your pics looks like a 1921 to 1924 M-type which had different main bearing locknuts and pinch bolts from the later models. It also has the original 21-24 toolpost, which will hold down modern tools just fine, with a few packing shims to get centre height.

The drawback of the 21-24 model might be the absence of the carriage traverse handwheel and rack. It looks like there is no quick engage on the half nuts so you have to use the leadscrew handwheel to move the carriage back and forth and use the dog clutch for screwcutting, engaging feed etc. So in my book, not as convenient as the post-1924 set up.

Flat belts work just fine on small modeling stuff if you use modern belting material that grips better than the old leather, or pull the mandrel and fit an endless poly-V belt like drives the alternator on many cars today.

Look into what an electric motor will cost you too. I run mine one a 1hp, but originally they were often used with a half horsepower job.

There is also a very good Yahoo group called Drummondlathes at Yahoo that has lots of info on these old dinosaurs. Lots of guys still using them as their main lathe.

150 pound is probably an ok price if it's close and convenient as you say but you could try an offer of 100?

Edited By Hopper on 28/08/2013 08:49:11

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi Carlos,

I agree with Hopper, go for a late model M type, take your time and get a good one, they are worth every penny.

I run a 1948 M as my every day lathe and I have just rebuilt a 1947 longbed which I will keep just for screw cutting. I have also got one of each of the original 3 1/2" Drummond flatbeds, 1907, 1914 and 1927, set up with the treadles…plus some others…

The late M type will cut nearly 1/4 inch of cast iron on a facing cut (I tried it once just to see when a lot of people were discussing lathe choices which happens regularly), I also have a Super7 but still always return to the Drummonds.

If you want to come up to the Suffolk/norfolk border to see what they are really like send me a PM.

Andy

Edited By AndyB on 28/08/2013 14:49:55

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by AndyB on 28/08/2013 14:49:03:

I run a 1948 M as my every day lathe and I have just rebuilt a 1947 longbed which I will keep just for screw cutting. I have also got one of each of the original 3 1/2" Drummond flatbeds, 1907, 1914 and 1927, set up with the treadles…plus some others…

Blimey, you must have the domestic authorities well under control. You must tell us your secret.

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi Hopper,

The secret to having a shed (actually 2) full of lathes is to encourage SWMBO into a hobby of her own and provide a shed for her to do it in.

Miranda does fish. means nothing to me, they look like bonsai versions of real ones, but it has all the benefits of a real hobby as she is too busy looking after them to notice what I am doing.

Err… I have just realised that several people on here know where we live, and I know one who has the same hobby as Miranda. Tongue in cheek Sue, I promise! But you haven't got 11 tanks though have you (one more than I have got lathes), THAT is the secret! She can't and would not argue. Haha

Seriously though, I did not intend to get so many, I was buying parts to rebuild my great grandfather's 1914 B Type Drummond and the cheapest way to get them was to buy the whole lathe. Then, of course, I found that they were in such good condition that I could not strip them, so I would have to get another one for the parts I wanted and it would be the same! I ask you, how do you strip a 1948 M Type that has de Havilland works plates attached to it? The lathe has worked in the factory where Tiger Moths, Mosquitos, Venoms and Vampires were made; wouldn't you keep it?

Andy

Edited By AndyB on 23/10/2013 11:26:39

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Oh that such a lathe could have been available when I first wanted to start model engineering. I spent the same equivalent money (ie 3x cost of LP record then) on a motorola 6800 – just the chip not a complete computer – and spent 10 years in hobby electronics instead. ( and petrol was 5 bob a gallon)

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by AndyB on 23/10/2013 11:13:34:

Hi Hopper,

…

I ask you, how do you strip a 1948 M Type that has de Havilland works plates attached to it? The lathe has worked in the factory where Tiger Moths, Mosquitos, Venoms and Vampires were made; wouldn't you keep it?

Andy

Hi Andy,

Interesting. My M-type also apparently came out of an aircraft factory. My old man bought it in the UK when he was in the merchant navy in the early 1950s, from a secondhand dealer, who told him it came out of a WW2 aircraft factory. Truth or salesman's patter, we will never know. But seems more possible now that you have mentioned yours came from deDeHavilland.

[Peter Phillips 4Participant @peterphillips4]

Hi to all iam new to this if it works I will my question thanks peter

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by Peter Phillips 4 on 05/03/2018 17:38:08:
Hi to all iam new to this if it works I will my question thanks peter

Yes Peter that worked ok.

regards

[Peter Phillips 4Participant @peterphillips4]

Hi ye it wor ked ok I have just bought drummond m
I have got some old tractors I have got it for making bits for them going back to the drummond how do you put the chuck it to the tail stock and where do you get parts from thanks peter

[RedsetterParticipant @redsetter]

Going back to the original question, which has been discussed many times.

The poster is a beginner. The M type is a fine machine but the newest is about 60 years old and many will be considerably older. Any lathe of that period may have had heavy use and will have signs of wear, even if it is an M type. Some of that wear may make it inaccurate and some will be difficult to rectify. This is not the best option for a beginner, unless he wants to specialise in restoring vintage lathes – in which case he will very quickly need another one to do the work.

An M type or similar may only cost a few hundred pounds but by the time you have sorted it out and replaced the missing bits, you could well be approaching the price of a new Warco, Chester or Arc of similar capacity. These may not be perfect but they will be accurate, unworn and will work straight out of the box.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Peter, Are you trying to hold a drill in the tailstock in a chuck to drill a hole in something in the main chuck?
You get a drill chuck and put it on a special tapered rod (called and arbor) that fits the taper in the tailstock. This will be a Morse taper MT1 and the chuck have a different taper (Jacobs) so you have to get a matching one. You see some on ebay but may be ropey and without a chuck key. So better to go to a supplier like ArcEuro who advertise at the top right of this page as they will make sure you get the matching pair.

There are a lot of posts on the forum about the Drummond so do some searching and reading.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Hi Peter, another M Type owner here. When you get a chuck with the tapered arbor sticking out the back, you slide it into the tailstock with a bang so it grips in place. To remove, stick a piece of round bar up the other end of the tailstock and tap it with a hammer while holding the chuck so when it jumps out it does not hit the bed and dent it.

A good book relevant to these old lathes is LH Sparey's "The Amateur's Lathe" — still in print, commonly available and and cheap to buy. It contains everything you need to get going on an old lathe.

Parts are available secondhand on eBay, mostly during the summer months when people are having workshop clean-outs it seems!

There is also a Drummondlathes group on Yahoo groups that has a lot of information in its FILES section and is a source of parts too, although the site format is a PITA to use.

They are a great old lathe and my son and I have done some amazing work on ours, including making our own dividing head from scratch. Should be just the shot for making tractor parts. There is something satisfying about using a vintage lathe to make vintage parts — mine is used for vintage motorcycle resto work.

Edited By Hopper on 05/03/2018 23:51:36

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