Cutting oil

[Clive HaynesParticipant @clivehaynes74488]

Hi, does anyone know a way to thin neatcut? I have two warco machines with coolant pumps and althought being told at the time of purchase that these will work with neatcut, they don't and I do not want to use suds.The only other way I suppose is to buy pumps for the job.

Clive

[Clive HaynesParticipant @clivehaynes74488]

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I dilute neatcut 50/50 with paraffin. Don't know if that is thin enough for a pump, I only use a squeezy bottle.

HTH,

Rod

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Maybe you need to prime the pumps?

Clive

[Clive HaynesParticipant @clivehaynes74488]

My workshop is in a room off the house and I was concerned about using paraffin as a dilutant because of the smell.

The lathe runs at a trickle which is okayish but the mill has never worked at all, perhaps that needs priming.

Do you just pour fluid down the outlet nozzle?

Clive

[John PParticipant @johnp77052]

Hi Clive
If your pump is listed in Warco as 4218 it should be ok for pumping
these sort of cutting oils .

The pumps that i have for similar use are 1/8 hp 240 volt and pump
Exelcut 401 or ilocut 486 at about 4 litre a minute in the summertime,
at a guess neatacut is probably a similar product.

Assuming that the system is clean and there are no blockages the
things that will affect this are the motor power ,the head, ie the difference
in height from the pump rotor to the delivery outlet and the size of the delivery
pipe.

I use 15 mm copper pipe and soldered fittings for all of the plumbing
and the same bore plastic tube to connect to the outlet ,this helps a lot in
keeping the restriction to flow to a minimum.

Looking at the photo of the Warco pump the outlet fitting is really too small
for cutting oil ,these type of centrifugal pumps do not need priming providing
the liquid is above the rotor they will work.

Seen here in the album Workshop and machines this photo the outlet is
connected to this boring bar and has more than adequate delivery.

John

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

What is wrong with using 'suds'.?

Although I seem to recall that Warco did not advocate the use on their machines for some reason, only neat oil. No idea if they still have that policy.

I find that if a good quality soluble is used the water evaporates away and leaves a nice thin film of protective oil on the machine.

Nick

[Clive HaynesParticipant @clivehaynes74488]

Hi John,

many thanks for your informative reply.

Both machines are about one year old,the lathe is GH1236 with the coolant pump housed in the cabinet stand under the tail stock which I assume is the same as Warco sell as a stand alone unit.

The mill however is a HV model and has the coolant tank in the base with the pump bolted to the top of the base casting. I have filled the tank with the recommend quantity of neat cut but have never had anything out of the nozzle. I must add that the motor runs okay.

Hi Nick,

Warco or should I say Roger assured me that neat cut will work but was hesitant as these units were designed for suds. When I was an apprentice there was no choice as far as I am aware and I just recall how suds aged and sometimes smelt which was a nasty job for the toolroom labourers to clean.

Clive

.

 

Edited By Clive Haynes on 27/05/2016 22:50:12

Edited By Clive Haynes on 27/05/2016 22:51:42

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Look into synthetics. I use Rocol Ultracut at 30 – 40 to 1 dilution. Expensive stuff but at that dilution the gallon bottle goes a long way. On current rate of consumption expecting something approaching 20 years per gallon doesn't look terribly unreasonable. Like most home shop folks coolant or mist only gets used when essential. I expect to get approaching 20 years out of mine.

Niffs much, much less than suds and doesn't go bad.

Clive.

[John PParticipant @johnp77052]

Hi Clive
Very nice milling machine those HV machines ,used one
some years back never had the coolant pump operational though.
Has that metal output coolant pipe with twist shutoff outlet ,
had one of those on my Warco lathe when supplied ,useless
for cutting oil as it has a very small bore ,chucked it away and
replaced with 1/2 inch lock line ,safer in any case if it gets in
the way of the cutter on the mill.
May be best to check that the system is clear all the way through.

John

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Clive, the best and longest lasting machines I have worked on, never used soluble oil on the machines.They used straight cutting oils, that were thin like a honing oil. The machines that used soluble oils had wear in them as to the almost new condition of the cutting oil machines. I'm a convert of using oils and not water based coolants now .

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Which Neatcut are you using, they do several different viscosities, maybe you have a thick one.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Castrol Alusol A is a semi synthetic soluble oil. It used to be called Hysol excel. It doesn't smell and seems to be good for most applications. PM me and I will send you a sample.

Regards.

David.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I like using soluble oil from the pump whenever possible. But I also use neat oil quite a bit.

The problem I have with soluble is not the smell, but no matter how careful I am I seem to get more splattered upon me than I do on the intended work and cutting tool.

Nick

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

David, Me being a "Castrol fan" Have used many of the Castrol range, all excellent. I now stick to Castrol HYSOL XF, superb with my soft Scottish water. I have never had any Castrol cutting fluid go "bad " For anyone that has had that Monday morning smell from their coolant, get the tablets that you drop into the tank,, nice mint smell, although I have never needed to use them.

Cheers.

[ROBERT BLACKSHAWParticipant @robertblackshaw40066]

Neatcut 50/50 with paraffin will it reduce the smell and ok on aluminium to stop build up on the tool. Use to use spit years ago when countersinking aluminium on a few holes, better than paraffin.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Raymond Anderson on 28/05/2016 09:56:37:

David, Me being a "Castrol fan" Have used many of the Castrol range, all excellent. I now stick to Castrol HYSOL XF, superb with my soft Scottish water. I have never had any Castrol cutting fluid go "bad "

I rarely use coolant, as I mostly machine with carbide. However, I do use it for HSS tooling (repetition lathe and horizontal mill), grinding and for CNC milling to wash away the swarf.

In the past I used Biokool14 from Hallett Oils, but as that got more difficult to obtain I switched to Hysol XF, as above. I'm in a very hard water area, and if I remember correctly Hysol XF copes with that. My coolant sits in the tanks for months, and years, and I have never had a problem with bad smells. All I do is top up with water on a regular basis and check the concentration with a refractometer every now and again.

Soluble oils going off may have been a problem in the past, but it isn't an issue with modern coolants.

Andrew

[Clive HaynesParticipant @clivehaynes74488]

Hi Jason,

The neatcut that I'm using is from warco but I don't know the viscosity as there is no info on the can. I was hoping to be able to find a lower viscosity. I have looked at the neat oil coolant system on the warco site and it is £160, out of stock and I only want the pump, a heavy soil submersible pump would probably work and they are only £40+.

There are no kinks or restrictions in any of the pipes but I will try with the nozzle removed.

Many thanks everyone.

Clive

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hi Andrew, ANY Castrol product is top notch. I too have never had any Castrol oil go "off" All me gear boxes filled with Castrol, slideways lubricated with Castrol Magnglide and of course the Hysol XF for cutting. At one time a lot of the soluble coolants didnt like soft water [used to foam like hell ] unless you put in an additive. Better formulations now.. The XF has a wide dilution ratio I get my Castrol products through the brothers employers as all their milling, turning, broaching ,honing ect all utilise Castrol. nothing else. I actually tried Rocol and Q8 years ago, but never got on with them. [probably down to me ]

[John PParticipant @johnp77052]

Hi Clive
The coolant pumps that i use are the same as can be seen in
J & L catalogue on page 1969, Exel pumps listed at £110 + vat.
Excelcut 401 neat cutting oil is on offer in J & L Advantage
25 Litres @ £ 57.16 + vat.
John

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

Everyone seems to agree that Castrol Hysol XF is the way to go.

I can find it for sale in huge commercial quantities, but where can you buy it in sensible small quantities of a litre or two?

Mike

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

mike T, Broughton lubricants are who the brothers employers deal with and I get it through them. They get it in 1000ltr tanks or 208 ltr drums, I use the 20ltr size [which is the smallest available] Hysol XF is fantastic stuff and lasts for ages. I really dont think it would be available in smaller quantities than the 20 ltr. You could contact Castrol directly and they will be able to tell you for sure.

Cheers.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

I sell oils on ebay but not Hysol XF at the moment. If anyone is interested I will get a 20 litre and break it down as I'm sure it will sell. Looking at Broughtons price it would work out at about £11.50 per litre including post. That price would only be for people responding to this post. I am away on holiday soon but will sort it out when I get back.

David.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hi David, That sounds a very good idea, at least folks will be able to get it in more suitable quantities. You would be best to advertise it as specifically, Castrol Hysol XF and not just soluble cutting fluid. [but you know doubt already know that ] Im sure it would shift quickly. especially in the litre sizes. It is water tolerant hard or soft, extremely stable, and very, very long life. never any staining [even on yellow metals ] truly at home across a wide range of metals. I know I must sound like a salesman for Castrol.. maybe I should apply for a job as a Castrol rep !!! lol.

Cheers.

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

Hi David

You can count me in for litre size quantities

Mike

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