clarke cl430 lathe motor upgrade

[AeroJetParticipant @aerojet]

Hi folks,
I have a Clarke cl430 lathe that has served me well the last 10 years and now the motor is on its way out.

I’ve replaced the bearings and still it sounds funny when it is running.

I’ve been toying with the idea of swapping the motor out with a three phase + inverter for some time and now the motor is failing I have an ideal opportunity to do it.

I’ve searched high and low for a 3 phase motor of the same size but I can’t find any spec’s of the original motor size like frame size etc…

I have read a similar post on this forum of someone that has done it already, but no specifics are mentioned.

Does anyone know what 3 phase motor would have the same bolt pattern and shaft dimensions to be a one4one replacement?

Cheers
Adam

[AeroJetParticipant @aerojet]

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Hi Adam,

I went with transwave converters who are advertised on ebay, they do TEC motor and Imo Idrive 2 inverter bundled packages.

I didn't go down this particular route, because I wanted an IMo inverter capable of handling a bigger through current (2.2kw) but I still bought that, and a motor from them.

PS; you will need to likely bore the motor pulley to a bigger size and cut a deeper keyway with shims once you've done that.

TEC motors are very decent aluminium framed motors and I'm happily using 2 of them.

However, if you want knock your socks off motor quality, I have to say I was taken a back by how good the cast iron framed tesla + newton motors were.

Like you, I never found the legendary one on one replacement, but I am using a TEC 1HP (750W) 3 phase motor on the CL430, as we speak. The other thing that will be different is the hole mountings/ spacing on the fixing plate for the motor feet.

I got round this, because the TEC motors have remove-able socket screw mounted aluminium feet, I simply measured the hole spacing of the old Clarke motor feet and copied it in 10mm aluminium.

When you change motors over, it's very rare you'll get a perfect match for your machine, and theres a lot more work involved in adapting your machine to take it, than people seem to believe.

If you want really ​​detailed specifics of this fit, I can do a write up on it if you want.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 20/01/2017 18:48:45

[Martin NewboldParticipant @martinnewbold]

Lol don't change it .

I brought Tec Motor and ABB Inverter and have had a silly amount of problems and lost money motor was sent back and never returned and gone back to single phase.

If you are serious about it buy an Inverter which will power the lathe and use the gears to change speeds. and an inverter set up at around 1.5hp The low power VFD didn't work for me. I have a 1.5hp single phase motor now. Also pay attention to motor speeds of RPM . If you buy new motor it may be different to the motor you have, producing different speeds at the head. Your bearings may not cope with the speed change.

Regards

Martin

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Martin Newbold on 21/01/2017 12:20:18:

Lol don't change it .

I brought Tec Motor and ABB Inverter and have had a silly amount of problems and lost money motor was sent back and never returned and gone back to single phase.

If you are serious about it buy an Inverter which will power the lathe and use the gears to change speeds. and an inverter set up at around 1.5hp The low power VFD didn't work for me. I have a 1.5hp single phase motor now. Also pay attention to motor speeds of RPM . If you buy new motor it may be different to the motor you have, producing different speeds at the head. Your bearings may not cope with the speed change.

Regards

Martin

He said it's on it's way out so I don't think he has a choice if he wants to continue using it. It's easy enough to find a 3/4 – 1 HP motor that will be the same, as it's a 4 pole 1400 rpm motor, the machine doesn't have any gears, only for the feedscrew, it uses belts and pulleys.

TEC motors I've got have never failed me so far, and you have to be sensible about the size of the inverter, generally it's better to factor in any overcurrent so the inverter should be able to handle a higher rating than your own motor. It doesn't really matter if he choses 3 phase or single phase, as the power and speed delivered is governed by the pulley ratio.

The inverter just allows for a safer, soft start and modify motor parameters. Great for slow screw cutting and tapping, it's generally thought that the slowest speed on this machine isn't slow enough (too quick for screw cutting). So it isn't a bad idea.

He hasn't got back to us so far so I don't know what the situation is. But I do know he'll be lucky to find a motor that has both the same shaft diameter and hole position for the feet.

Using a TEC aluminium frame motor will at least allow him to remove the feet and make his own to suit the bracket. Of course, it doesn't HAVE to be TEC, but I know that you can remove them.

You can't do this on a lot of motors, and that will mean making an adapter plate, to sit on the other, which in turn will push the motor futher away from the spindle, possibly fouling the metal framework cover. Much simpler to make custom feet that give it the similar height as the old one.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 21/01/2017 12:40:42

[Martin NewboldParticipant @martinnewbold]

Yes I agree Michael size is always an issue lol.

But the advice is not good from suppliers or on web. Its very easy to buy something low powered and be led to believe it will all be good. By gears i mean pulleys to change speed which the clarke should have. Its easy to buy something which is not suitable .

My purchase is testament to this I took lots of advice. The work shop I use of a friends has a 7.5 KW inverter which powers et all . It works well but was a great deal of money . If you are spending £500 you are not going to get this to work in the same way.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Gentlemen,

I have a CL500M and have measured the foot mount and the base of foot to the centre of the motor shaft and have got 112 mm x 90 mm pitch for the foot and 71 mm for the shaft centre which gives the motor a frame size of 71 which TEC sell for their 3/4 hp motor which is the one currently fitted as single phase, the only thing that confuses me is how many poles 2 or 4, TEC say 2 is ok.

Martin P

[AeroJetParticipant @aerojet]

Hi Martin & Michael,

Firstly, thanks for replying to my post, and secondly sorry for not getting back earlier, there was a family do.

Right, i am familiar with the TEC motors as I have fitted a 3ph 2.2kw to a rig I'm using. I'm using a single phase supply to 3 phase output inverter, and Im have no problems winding the speed up and down on it all day long.

As the lathe is in the corner of the workshop, it is difficult to see the motor plate specs but i can see that the type is CO2 7144. from what little I can find on the motor, its a frame 71 AC induction motor.

Aside from mounting the motor and modding the motor bracket, will the shaft location & length/dia be a problem to source similar?

(I have already considered getting a new step pulley to suit)

Thanks,

Adam

[AeroJetParticipant @aerojet]

One other thing, can the source of the noise be fixed as the motor seems to run ok?

I've checked to see if the fan is hitting anything and no problem there.

I've replaced the bearings and that fixed the issue briefly.

the noise is more promenent when running forward than reverse.

Could the springloaded centrifugal switch be knackard, if so how would I check it?

Thanks!

[AeroJetParticipant @aerojet]

Hi Martin p,

112x90mm, does that translate to the bolt hole locations?

Thanks,
Adam

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I have a 0.4 kW TEC and a Jaguar Cub inverter, both about 4 years into the 5-year guarantee period without a single hiccough.

Neil

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Adam,

Yes it does.

Martin P

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Adam,

Yes it does.

If you go to this link https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/media/blfa_files/TECA_Dimensions_4.pdf look at the 3/4 hp motor there is a bit at the bottom which links you to the dimensions.

Martin P

[AeroJetParticipant @aerojet]

Hi Martin,

Looks like a 0.5523TECAB3 should do the trick.

I’ll double check the current motor dims tonight and place one on order if things are about right. I’m sort of expecting some amount of adjustment to fit.

I’ll update with my progress once done for the benefit of others once done.

Thanks for the help!

Adam

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by martin perman on 22/01/2017 16:16:00:

Gentlemen,

I have a CL500M and have measured the foot mount and the base of foot to the centre of the motor shaft and have got 112 mm x 90 mm pitch for the foot and 71 mm for the shaft centre which gives the motor a frame size of 71 which TEC sell for their 3/4 hp motor which is the one currently fitted as single phase, the only thing that confuses me is how many poles 2 or 4, TEC say 2 is ok.

Martin P

There are some people who sell these packages and push 2 pole motors and even state that a full speed range can be obtained via an inverter without any belt changing. True for speed but not for actual cutting power. In practice there are a less problems speeding a 4 pole motor up. There are various views on how far that can be taken.

John

–

[AeroJetParticipant @aerojet]

Hey folks,

Just thought I'd update on my progress…

After receiving the motor, inverter and remote control panel I had set about upgrading the lathe.

As I had removed the motor + motor plate from the lathe I had turned my attention to the motor electrical connection box.. Guess what I found? loose ring crimp terminals. So I had tightened them all up and now everything has been running fine for at least a few hours. no noise or anything. perfect!

I'll keep the 3phase kit for the upgrade that will one day be needed though.

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