Chester or Warco.

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Thanks David, job done.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

I bought the 'Economy' mill/drill (RF25 look alike) off Warco. Bought one of the last Imperial ones they sold, they were selling them off cheap so a bargain. Came in a crate – I didn't know how crap you could make plywood until I saw that crate but I wasn't buying the crate and it got binned anyway. The mill/drill has given me absolutely no problems at all. I had to modify the motor support as I didn't have the room for it to sit behind the mill as designed, which buggared the warranty straight away, but I took that chance. The only issue was the so-called 'manual' written in some sort of chineglese that made absolutely no sense at all and that disappointed me; after selling these for 30 years I would have thought Warco could have rewritten it in proper English. After sales very helpful when I needed to know how the table came apart so I could lift it in bits into position – it sits on a purpose made bench and I had to take it to bits to lift it all up on my own. I also bought a 460 belt sander – again exactly as they described and no problems with it, plus some other small tools. So for me Warco are pretty good-oh, I have no complaints with their kit, will use them again when I need to.

Can't say anything about Chester supplied stuff – not bought anything from them.

The only comment re one v t'other is that at the recent Midland Model Engineering show, I liked the stuff on the Warco stand better than the stuff on the Chester stand, but that's just personal choice. Thought the Warco stand didn't have enough sales folk about so difficult to get to talk with them, you sort of had to queue up, whilst at the Chester stand the sales staff were so busy talking to old customers about the good old days that there was no-one to talk with either. So I suppose you paid yer money (if you wanted/needed to) and took yer chance! Or not, as the case maybe.

So I suppose that is another point for Warco, but taken with a pinch of salt as nothing from Chester to compare with!

Chris

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/11/2017 11:33:46:

Posted by Rockets on 21/11/2017 22:34:13:
I don't think anyone is saying that all imported machines are rubbish. …

No but some comments come close. Quote, with my emboldening: "It's about buying a cheap new far eastern lathe and then every week or so, a bolt breaks or a thread strips or the electrics pack up. Again, it's not that all of them are like that but that too many of them are like that."

I'd be a very unhappy bunny indeed if my imported machines (Warco) were that bad. 'Every week or so' is an exaggeration, and 'too many of them are like that' is subjective.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/11/2017 11:39:40

That would be me. My wording wasn't a finite statistic but compared with a good second hand branded machine, these things seem to happen too often. Let's talk Dickson copy QCTP's. I bought one and couldn't tell you if it was Chinese or Indian but all the screws holding the tools in place in the holders and the studding and lock screw that set the height were at best blackened mild steel and certainly not hardened/high tensile. They bent all too easily. The visual finish of the threads was also best described as rough. They all had to be changed. Maybe if I hadn't already got a genuine Dickson one my expectations wouldn't have been as high but comparing the two was always going to happen and the quality of the pretender was spoilt by the periphery details like the screws. I sold it on three months later.

Edited By Chris Trice on 23/11/2017 00:17:18

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I’ve had 5 new machines over the years. 4 lathes and a mill. My first lathe, a Chester conquest mini lathe, was excellent. I’ve had a couple of Sieg lathes, (C3 and (S)C4, both never went wrong and I still have the SC4. That has done ten years of work, never had any issue with its quality. The mill I had, (Weiss?), pretty poor build quality, but still working after 8 years.

My last new machine, the Chester Crusader, wasn’t too bad. It had a lot of loose bolts and general lack of quality. It had to have the motor off after a few months, (dodgy centrifugal switch), within 18 months capacitors had gone wrong, belts fell apart.
Overall low quality. To be fair, it’s a pretty good lathe now.
I honestly didn’t expect a perfect lathe for the money and having had 4 other new machines, I had, I think, realistic expectations of what I would get. For me it was Chesters lack of customer care that annoyed me, (this was 5 years ago and I believe they have improved it since).

I dread to think how much a “perfect” lathe would have to sell for.
On balance, I would buy from Chester again, I would just make sure they could meet my expectations.

Jim

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Rockets on 22/11/2017 22:18:36:
If that's how you feel it's entirely up to you. I have an OX10 postcode. My brother Carl has an IV36 postcode. If you want to meet me to check, just let me know.

In that case did your brother enter your details as looking at them you also have an IV36 Postcode.

I see that you are now saying Carl is your brother.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by JasonB on 23/11/2017 07:37:29:

Posted by Rockets on 22/11/2017 22:18:36:
If that's how you feel it's entirely up to you. I have an OX10 postcode. My brother Carl has an IV36 postcode. If you want to meet me to check, just let me know.

In that case did your brother enter your details as looking at them you also have an IV36 Postcode.

I see that you are now saying Carl is your brother.

I believe the correct term is 'bang to rights'!

Never argue with a moderator, when they have access to everything

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Morning everyone. Snow here this morning so snow man duty beckons…

I don’t recall Rockets ever denying he is my brother. We used to live about 12 miles apart but my brother moved due to work. We used to pool resources and tools etc, so the distance us a bit more of a hassle now. We still sometimes send each other tools. However that got a bit sticky when I sent him a Tig welder.

Anyway, I don’t want to argue with the moderators. Access to everything you say? I’m glad I’m not one. I would not know what to do with power of that magnitude.

Getting back to the OP’s original point, I reckon I’d go for Warco over Chester. There being a lot of evidence of Chester having quality issues.

I hope they manage to sort it. I liked them, I’ve been to their place in Hawarden a few times and bought tooling from them. Part of my disappointment with them stems from having had a decent relationship with them at an earlier point.

I’m not trying to upset anyone or defame anyone. If I go on like this though, defaming people, arguing with the mods, generally being perceived as curmudgeonly and obstreperous…I’ll be getting a trophy named after me in no time.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Chris Trice on 23/11/2017 00:15:31:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/11/2017 11:33:46:

Posted by Rockets on 21/11/2017 22:34:13:
I don't think anyone is saying that all imported machines are rubbish. …

No but some comments come close. Quote, with my emboldening: "It's about buying a cheap new far eastern lathe and then every week or so, a bolt breaks or a thread strips or the electrics pack up. Again, it's not that all of them are like that but that too many of them are like that."

I'd be a very unhappy bunny indeed if my imported machines (Warco) were that bad. 'Every week or so' is an exaggeration, and 'too many of them are like that' is subjective.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/11/2017 11:39:40

That would be me.

…

Hi Chris,

I deliberately didn't attribute the quote because although it's a good example of hyperbole, it's not typical of the rest of your fine posts. Compared with normal output, you may have had a Chinese quality moment!

Your reasons for preferring second-hand quality to new Far Eastern Hobby machines make perfect sense to me. The only flaw is that applying it in practice requires you to be Chris Trice or someone very like him! Most newcomers aren't in a good place when it comes to buying second-hand and they're forced to take a much bigger risks buying second-hand than someone who knows the ropes like you.

So I see buying a new hobby lathe as a good way for beginners to make a start. If the machine is 'good enough' they can stick with it. If it's not 'good enough', as soon as they understand why they don't like it, they're educated and can move on. I learned a lot by starting with a Chinese mini-lathe. Mainly it was too small for about 20% of the work I was doing. I upgraded to a WM280 and have found it very capable. If I change again it will be to get conveniences like a clutch and full-gearbox, not because I'm dissatisfied with Chinese quality.

There's clearly a quality problem with Far Eastern lathes in that a percentage reach the customer with faults, usually minor. Although getting a faulty new lathe is a disappointment and nuisance the buyer is protected by consumer law.

For newcomers the best thing is to make a start. Any lathe is better than no lathe!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 23/11/2017 10:08:45

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

It’s true that any lathe is better than none. I feel for people though when they want to make a start and have saved up money to buy a machine that seems decent, only to find that they are frustrated and prevented from doing anything by its lack of quality.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

George, (Mechman 48) Ball Oilers.

Mine were 6mm

Arc Euro list them in their Catalogue 10 on page 62, as "Press Button Oilers" in 6mm, 8mm and 10mm dia.

Howard

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

A friend of mine has Warco kit. Just to set the record straight, both machines have had minor problems, so all Warco stuff is by no means perfect!

I think one of the most annoying things has been the lack of spares, when required. These have always been supplied, but the waiting period has been as much as 6 months. The latter, for a top slide gib strip. My pal is ham fisted and managed to hit the chuck with the carriage when on auto traverse.

Now I would have made one, but that is me. Interestingly enough, the gib turned up as rough as old boots and had to be scraped in! I am spoilt with Myfords and old British kit. just buy some ground flat stock and after a few minutes work on the mill and drill, you can just drop it into the slideway and off you go!

To be fair, both his mill and lathe have been turning out good work. My main carp about the lathe is that the table isn't t slotted. So no boring table! I have urged him to slot the carriage table, but that seems to be a step too far for him!

I certainly don't expect a toolroom quality lathe for the price paid. But some of the horror stories recently aired, makes me wonder. I do expect suppliers to check out the kit before despatch. Some people say that the economics of doing this is not viable. I STRONGLY disagree with this attitude on their part. Otherwise the Importer becomes a warehouse where crates are stored between coming into the country and despatch to the customer. Customers are doing the QC that the importers SHOULD be doing. No way can this be condoned.

Andrew.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Well said.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

One can only talk from experience and any comments I make are from my own experience. I have bought many things (at the start) that were from the cheap end of the market and a good proportion disappointed. The QCTP (sold on), an ER collet chuck that wouldn't fit the lathe spindle it was intended for (thrown away), a set of expanding mandrels that were horribly undersize fitted with more mild steel screws blackened to give the impression they were better quality (languishing in a box unused), a boring head where the three holes intended for holding the tools are all different angles (also languishing in a box, good British second hand subsequently bought), At least three parting off tool blade holders that are indifferently machined, none of which hold the blade even close to upright or straight, a borrowed small milling machine whose column was not square to the table and returned unused with diplomatic utterances of thanks, a drill chuck that stopped gripping then subsequently fell to pieces….. and so on. You'll understand that all this amounts to aversion therapy? Some items have been OK. Of the far east items I am happy with, generally anything from Vertex has been good. No complaints about their ER collets or rotary tables. I nearly forgot my friends lathe (not sure which dealer he got it from but kept blowing fuses straight from the box until the speed controller went pop permanently all on the first day. He was a beginner who had his joy crushed.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 23/11/2017 10:34:02:

A friend of mine has Warco kit. Just to set the record straight, both machines have had minor problems, so all Warco stuff is by no means perfect!

…

My main carp about the lathe is that the table isn't t slotted. So no boring table! I have urged him to slot the carriage table, but that seems to be a step too far for him!

… I do expect suppliers to check out the kit before despatch. Some people say that the economics of doing this is not viable. I STRONGLY disagree with this attitude on their part.

…

Andrew.

Warco stuff is by no means perfect. True! Mine all worked fine out-of-the-box but benefited from minor fettling. Nothing that had me reaching for the phone with steam coming out my ears.

Table not slotted. True of most if not all of the smaller Far Eastern lathes and is one of the things that made me upgrade from a mini-lathe. I've still not used it yet though!

Expecting suppliers to check before despatch. That would add to the cost and it's hard to think of many products where it's done. I've often bought stuff from Currys with no problem. Even so there was quite a queue at their service desk last week, people clutching faulty toasters and so forth. Most sellers deal with faults by exchange or money back.

I don't buy new cars myself but father-in-law took his new Citroen back to the dealer twice, my father his new Yaris 3 times, and next door neighbours new Jazz once. My almost totally reliable second-hand Corsa had a product recall. Father's best friend had his car back to the garage almost every time he went out. Nothing wrong with the car. First time he'd owned a new car with all the bells and whistles and he doesn't read manuals. Typical example, having turned the rear wiper on, he couldn't turn it off again…

Dave (who should be emptying spoilt food from his bust freezer)

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 23/11/2017 10:07:54:

For newcomers the best thing is to make a start. Any lathe is better than no lathe!

Dave

I agree, if I wasn't able to buy a new machine I don't think I would've had the confidence to start scouring the 2nd hand market. You have to start somehow.

It is true that I was given a very small micro American machine before this, but you can't really compare it to the order of 6" centre height machines. 

Am I right in saying that, despite this, the second hand market remains relatively buoyant of little used chipmasters and boxfords, largely down to the fact that a lot of schools geared up to train students after the war, only to later find that industry had largely moved on from manual machines to cam gear automatics and "2nd op" small repetition machines, and therefore slowly phased industrial skills out of the curriculum?

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 23/11/2017 11:33:19

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Mine were 6mm

Arc Euro list them in their Catalogue 10 on page 62, as "Press Button Oilers" in 6mm, 8mm and 10mm dia.

Howard

Thanks for the info Howard.
George.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 23/11/2017 11:12:54:

I don't buy new cars myself but father-in-law took his new Citroen back to the dealer twice, my father his new Yaris 3 times, and next door neighbours new Jazz once. My almost totally reliable second-hand Corsa had a product recall. Father's best friend had his car back to the garage almost every time he went out. Nothing wrong with the car. First time he'd owned a new car with all the bells and whistles and he doesn't read manuals. Typical example, having turned the rear wiper on, he couldn't turn it off again…

Dave (who should be emptying spoilt food from his bust freezer)

I see your point but cars are made of quite a few more parts and have more working features than a lathe plus lathes have very little opportunity to kill you compared with a car and the subsequent litigation that would follow. A second hand Corsa would probably have had any teething problems dealt with which thinking about it, supports my idea that buying good second hand equipment has its advantages.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Chris Trice on 23/11/2017 11:33:45:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 23/11/2017 11:12:54:

…

…

A second hand Corsa would probably have had any teething problems dealt with which thinking about it, supports my idea that buying good second hand equipment has its advantages.

Absolutely right! When buying cars I'm much more experienced and always buy second-hand. Carefully. In that market I'm more like Chris Trice than SillyOldDuffer!

By the way, those new cars all had trivial faults except Dad's Yaris. He bought on their deservedly high reputation without checking the details. Unfortunately he chose the model with an unusual automatic gearbox. It turned out to be both unreliable and expensive to fix. After a short run Yaris stopped selling them and switched to a different box which is reliable. All it proves is that anything you buy can be a wrong 'un. It's all about risk, the advantage of buying new is consumer protection in the event that the supplier doesn't automatically do the right thing.

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Perhaps we all need to take a chill pill…

I'm going to lock this thread as its starting to get personal.

Nothing has been deleted or censored – I'm not hiding anyone's postings, I just think we all need to move on now.

Neil

[Author]

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