Can you recognise this clock design ?

[Roger JelbertParticipant @rogerjelbert74854]

This is my first post ! I have been given a part built clock that can either be canabalised as a basis for a new clock or perhaps finished as it was intended if I can get some more details of it. The clock was given to me by someone who in turn had aquired it from the estate of a model engineer. It is incomplete.

I'm wondering if anyone recognises the design ? Of course it may be an original design by the maker..The gathering arm (4) is short and places a significant drag on the pendulum.
The Hipp toggle is a version invented (according to F Hope-Jones) by Herbert Scott of Bradford. The count wheel (3) has small secondary notches on the crest of the teeth into which the gathering arm (4) drops when the arc has fallen sufficiently. there is no sign of a contact assemble present.

The impulse arm (1) is a puzzle as it seems very light to be a gravity arm. I can only guess it was supposed to connect with the lower face of the pallet (2) upwards, under the direct force of the electro magnet.

 

Any thoughts ?

Edited By Roger Jelbert on 03/11/2016 12:53:31

Edited By Roger Jelbert on 03/11/2016 12:55:17

[Roger JelbertParticipant @rogerjelbert74854]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looks a bit like the Jubilee clock that was in ME Oct92 to June 93

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Westybury's original articles from earlier, I think the later was by John Wilding who did a booklet on it (with alterations).

Part 1

Part2

Edited By JasonB on 03/11/2016 13:28:16

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Yes, Westbury's Synchronome clock, backplate castings still available from College Engineering

http://www.collegeengineering.co.uk/product/syncronome-clock-backplate-574/

I saw the title and was hoping it would be a chiming clock so I could say, "I don't know but the face rings a bell".

When the solenoid operates, the lever 1 kicks up against the striker plate 2 and impulses the pendulum.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Its NOT Westbury's Synchranome Neil, its the Jubilee look at the backplate in the photos and compare with the one in your link.

College used to do the Jubilee backplate but not showing it on their website, its in my paper catalogue

Now I'm not a clockie but even I can see the difference

 

Edited By JasonB on 03/11/2016 15:01:04

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/11/2016 14:14:33:

Yes, Westbury's Synchronome clock, backplate castings still available from College Engineering

When the solenoid operates, the lever 1 kicks up against the striker plate 2 and impulses the pendulum.

.

… Frank Hope Jones must be turning in his grave

It would be much better converted into a proper Synchronome.

Was Westbury really responsible for that impulsing arrangement ?

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Thanks for the clarification, Jason … my closing question stands.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2016 14:48:29

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2016 14:46:06:

 

Was Westbury really responsible for that impulsing arrangement ?

MichaelG.

Possible not Michael, the casting is definately the Jubilee but having now quickly looked at the two PDF articles the workings are not the same, maybe your better eye could have a glance at them as clocks are not really my thing.

Maybe this is a Heinz?

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 03/11/2016 15:01:29

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The Backplate Neil linked to is for an altogether more elegant design by Eliot Isaacs

So Roger's example does look to be a bit of a Heinz home Brew design.

Edited By JasonB on 03/11/2016 15:10:02

[Roger JelbertParticipant @rogerjelbert74854]

Thanks for those replies. Fancy the answer being right here in the ME archives !.

I am about to print out the articles linked to by Jason to see how my example .compares. Will reply again when I've done it.

If impulsing like that ever worked it must have been very tricky to set up.. I agree with Michael…HJ would indeed be turning in his grave. Several features smack of reinventing the wheel…A ball race in place of a suspension spring being another..

I have five Synchronomes so I knew it wasn't one of them !…Roger

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Here, what's that clicking noise?
(That's Fred, he's a "synchrognome", haha)

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

"Here, what's that clicking noise?"

Its the sound of the passage of time Neil as we wait for your next gag.

Rik

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Rik Shaw on 03/11/2016 16:58:49:

"Here, what's that clicking noise?"

Its the sound of the passage of time Neil as we wait for your next gag.

Rik

Unfortunately we probably won't have to wait too long

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Obviously not David Bowie fans…

N.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Roger,

As you already have Synchronomes: May I suggest that you put it away for a few months, until Jim Arnfield's new electro-mechanical Gravity Escapement design gets published … This is a real 'game-changer'.

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2016 14:46:06:

… Frank Hope Jones must be turning in his grave

It would be much better converted into a proper Synchronome.

Was Westbury really responsible for that impulsing arrangement ?

MichaelG.

.

Please note this is not a 'poor man's synchronome' it is a perfectly respectable electric clock design in its own right.

There have been 3 versions I can think of in ME over the years, An original version, a rework of that, and a 3/4 second pendulum version. based on one of them. (I think Neil has put copies of one set of articles in the forum archive)

Also just for general education the Hipp and similar designs provide an impulse from the magnet as and when they need it whereas the Synchronome provides an impulse every 30 seconds which is why it is (was) used for driving slave clocks around schools and factories.

Did anyone else at MEX notice the Synchronome in the hall behind the cafeteria? Have a look next year and perhaps Neil can arrange for it to have a light on it – way more interesting than all those rusty old bikes.

[Roger JelbertParticipant @rogerjelbert74854]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2016 19:42:27:

Roger,

As you already have Synchronomes: May I suggest that you put it away for a few months, until Jim Arnfield's new electro-mechanical Gravity Escapement design gets published … This is a real 'game-changer'.

MichaelG.

That sounds intriguing..I'm in no rush and can finish the case I've been working on..

I've read the articles and see that the impulse method is an improvement suggested by Wilding at a later date. I won't be building the ME clock but will use the chassis and pendulum in some new form..Possibly in the forthcoming "game changing" way" if the mechanical construction methods are within my ability. Otherwise it will be entirely electrical as the one I've already made…Roger

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2016 19:42:27:

Roger,

As you already have Synchronomes: May I suggest that you put it away for a few months, until Jim Arnfield's new electro-mechanical Gravity Escapement design gets published … This is a real 'game-changer'.

MichaelG.

Where is it to be published?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by duncan webster on 04/11/2016 01:36:57:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2016 19:42:27:

Roger,

As you already have Synchronomes: May I suggest that you put it away for a few months, until Jim Arnfield's new electro-mechanical Gravity Escapement design gets published … This is a real 'game-changer'.

MichaelG.

Where is it to be published?

.

The Horological Journal, in 2017, I believe.

< The design came out of discussion between John Reynolds and Jim Arnfield. >

Jim showed it at the BHI's 'Fall-Back' event … configured as a. double pendulum precision clock, in an evacuated tank.

This is [pedictably enough] a masterly implementation; but the mechanism itself has an elegant simplicity, and could be applied to a more conventional single pendulum arrangement.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/11/2016 08:07:00

[Roger JelbertParticipant @rogerjelbert74854]

I remarked on the ball bearing pendulum suspension in the example I have.
Westbury deals with that topic in his original article, mentioniing the alternatives to springs that have been tried. He comes down in favour of the conventional spring – and copied his from the Synchronome. My clock builder seems to like them as he has used several where clock makers would use pinions.

The Jubilee clock was reviseted again in 1965 by H.H.Knie who picks up on a subject dear to Hope-Jones – positive contact making. He reckons the original Hipp Toggle trailer is a superior system. Anyone who has seen a PO No36 clock working could not but agree. The action is so snappy and positive.

I had assumed that the upcoming new electo-mechanical escapement mentioned by Michael was to appear in ME. I don't see the Horological Journal so maybe won't see that after all.

Thanks for all the input….I have enough food for thought on how to make use of the parts I've got..Roger.

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