Bench vice

[Chris12Participant @chris12]

Hi,

I’m setting up my workshop for model engineering work and I’m looking for a bench vice.

Are there any recommended vice ? Or some to stay away from ?

Axminster seems to have good one (made from York) but quite pricey. There are also Clarke vises from Machine Mart, much more affordable, but what about the quality of those ?

 

Any idea/feedback is welcome !

[Julie AnnParticipant @julieann]

Personally I’d go with Record, although they are probably over budget. My Record vice is 55 years old and still going strong despite some serious abuse. I have a second Record vice from my late uncle that I will be cleaning up and installing.

On a more general note don’t bother with a swivel base vice; it’ll just swivel when you don’t want it to. Also bolt the vice down properly to a solid bench, it shouldn’t even think about moving whatever you are doing.

Julie

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Julie has it ! Record or WODEN. A good secondhand record and if need be a new set of jaws is a good move. DO NOT buy a cheap one it will end in tears and hold work poorly. For size 4″ upwards, and NO swivel. Remember to oil the screw and slidways. Noel.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A cheap vice is not a good investment. It is likely to incorporate a number of faults, and the material might be of dubious quality; possibly so bad that it actually fractures.

Invest in a Record or Woden. They may be appear to be expensive, but will be accurate, and durable.

I was able to buy a Record from work, that had seen little use. After over twenty years, but is still as good as ever, despite bearing the marks of my continuous abuse.

Howard

[DurhambuilderParticipant @durhambuilder]

Buy a big old record vice, virtually bomb proof. For smaller delicate work use a small quick release milling vice mounted on a steel bar which is gripped in the jaws of the bigger vice.

[Durhambuilder]

On Durhambuilder Said:

Buy a big old record vice, virtually bomb proof.

The big old Record I bought cheap at a boot sale turned out to have been broken clean in half and brazed back together! Works ok but the jaws do not quite line up right so not good for precision work. I should have known when the seller crowed “You’ll never break that ‘un” as I handed over my hard-earned. How someone could ever split such a beast in twain is beyond me, but they obviously walk among us. However, whoever did the brazing job on it certainly knew their stuff so there is some hope for mankind yet.

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

A Record no.74 Autovice is a good small steel vice (4 inch)with offset jaws and the capability to bend and grip pipe. If you need a flogging vice try to find an old steel vice such as a Fortis; I have a no.11 which has been subjected to, and sustained very significant loads – for this you will need a heavy, well secured bench. Avoid cast iron.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Blimey Durham builder if thats your delicate!!!!

[John PurdyParticipant @johnpurdy78347]

I’ll second it for a Record. My #2 (3 1/2″) is, like Julies,  55 years old and is still perfectly satisfactory in spite of some hard use. I also have a 4″ #3 when needs must.

John

[Sonic EscapeParticipant @sonicescape38234]

I have one of this. I like it a lot.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Sonic Escape

Thats an interestingly different approach to vice design compared to the traditional Record et al.

Having the moving jaw at the rear with proper dovetail guides must mean that the jaws close far closer to parallel than the usual Record type where the font jaw moves and is a rattling fit in the body. The extra Vees cast in for gripping pipe or round looks a really useful feature.

Allowing for total lack of experience in actually using one I suspect I’d be really happy with a baby version to replace my Record Imp as a general purpose small stuff “precision (?)” bench vice.

For full size and serious metal bashing I couldn’t live without the ability of the big Record to hold long stuff vertically running in front of the edge of the bench. It also seems to me that the Records much greater slop allows the jaws to pivot a small amount and self align on the workpiece  if the opposing sides are less than parallel.

If I ever get around to it my next vice will be a fabricated one based on the Fireball tools design with a multi angle pivoting mount as shown in this YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhnlnhPHLrY (warning contains excessive perkiness and enthusiasm). Laser cut parts and tube have been lying around for some time. It will be interesting to see if the ability to hold stuff at odd angles for hand and similar work offsets the loss of rigidity inevitable when using a multi pivot rather than solid fitting to a hefty bench.

Clive

[Chris12Participant @chris12]

Sonic escape : yes, that is a very nice one, though the price…

 

I’ve long been eyeing this one : Heuer vice

[Clive Foster]

Interesting that Heuer vice. At a first look it doesn’t inspire to much strength. It looks like it’s made of sheet metal. But the specs are encouraging. Unlike most vices it is made of steel.

The Unior vice is indeed expensive on that site. I paid much less for it but I bought it in Romania. Also multiple sizes are available. They start from 80mm.

 

On Clive Foster Said:

Sonic Escape

Thats an interestingly different approach to vice design compared to the traditional Record et al.

 

In Romania that is the traditional style for vices. For many decades during the planned economy and for some time after this was the classic vice. Everyone had one of those. They came in many sizes, from 80mm to over 200mm. Many still look for them, believing that anything done in the past is better.

The Record style we call them English vices. It reminds me of when I first saw one in the 2000s and I wondered why it was made like that 🙂

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Check your local Men’s Shed. They might have one from a workshop clearance. As you are just setting up don’t rush but make do with a small ‘whatever you can get’ untl teh right one comes your way.
Don’t oil the mechanism use wax. Less dust pickup and cleaner.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I’ve got a 6″ one from Machinemart, must be 15 years old. No problems whatsoever!

 

I did remove the handle, mill a hex on the shaft and 3d print a new handle. This works very well and has been in use for a few years.

 

Jimb

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Machine marts offerings are fine, I’ve installed a couple at different places of work.

Modern record vices are made in India or China, so you might as well get the Machine mart version and save the markup for what is now little more than a name.

I agree that a swivel base is useless. Bolt the thing down so the fixed jaw (assuming “normal” moving front jaw) clears the bench – it’s easy to put it just to far back and then long pieces won’t clear when you try to clamp them.

My 4”came from Aldi about 20 years ago, but I haven’t seen one since.

Dave

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the best vice’s are made of steel, but are a lot more expensive. Most people use good quality cast iron ones, but they won’t take a lot of heavy hammering. A good vice of whatever material won’t exactly be cheap, and of course the size will make the difference on any vice.

Regards Nick.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Well there’s expensive vises, and then there’s EXPEN$IVE vises. https://tula-bug.co.uk/for_sale/large-bugatti-vice/

I bought a new and original made in the UK 5″ Record I’ve been 100% satisfied with in every way for over 30 years. But if there not made there anymore, buy a used one. They must have produced hundreds of thousands at least. Even a few million wouldn’t surprise me. In my opinion, a decent bench vise purchase ought to be thought of as a lifetime investment. A cheap poorly built vise is likely to be a lifetime of frustration until it breaks or you get rid of it, and still have to do what you should have in the beginning. My very first 4″ bench vise was cheap, I still remember the closing nut fracturing a lot better than what I paid for my Record to replace it.

[Chris12Participant @chris12]

That’s indeed a very good looking vice ! Though very slightly above my budget…

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You need to be a bit careful about generalizing when talking about a “Record” vices. You can buy a new one for £50 from the likes of toolstation or you can spend over £1000 from one of the industrial suppliers on one. Like anything else you get what you pay for and need to decide on what you really need and how deep your pocket is.

To some extent what you plan to get upto comes into it, For a number of years I managed with a 2.5″ record of my fathers which was fine for several Stuart size models and Minnie. It was only after being given an old Woden with cracked steel jaw that I went upto a 4″ and even then a lot of the time I use a much smaller vice held in that one, when you are making engines that will sit in the palm of your hand there is less need for a large vice.

I’ve also got one of the Parrot Vices that Axminster sell at the other end of the workshop, the swivel as well as being able to lay it on it’s side have both been useful features but I would not be trying to bend a bit of 12mm bar in it.

 

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Thanks Jason, I didn’t know that about the Record vises. My only experience with there products was the vise I bought and what they were selling back then.

 

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

If you are going to bash on things there is no substitute for reliable quality.

For lighter use anything decently, but not too cheaply, made will do. But any vice made by simple basic iron casting will be vulnerable to fracture from impact. Having half a vice falling on your foot due to overestimating the strength of a simple, basic casting, vice is not a recommended activity.

Generally large, old line, industrial quality vices in perfectly useable condition but cosmetically imperfect show up regularly on Facebook Marketplace for around £50 – £100, maybe less. I’d be surprised if something suitable for the ordinary guy didn’t turn up within fetching range inside a month.

+1 for what Jason says about small work being a different world to the heavy fitting duties old line UK vices were made to endure.

Clive

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If you want fancy features….
https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/2120203-a-very-useful-vise

 

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

I’d very much agree with Clive’s points. From what I’ve seen, anyone who could break one of the UK made Records maybe shouldn’t be allowed around any tool at all. Within it’s capacity, I’ve never once thought I needed a better or stronger vise. Maybe if a lot of heavy fabrication work or large part disassembly is also being done. But the first mine I worked at had a row of 8″ Record vises in there equipment repair and welding shop. And none of them ever broke or even had a bent handle the whole time I worked there. If heavy duty mechanics and that type of use didn’t break or damage them, I’d suggest a Record is at least good enough. But anyone in the UK would have an easier time than I would finding some of the used European made bench vises. Some that I’ve seen on Youtube look to be really well made.

For most M.E. tasks, a single but decent vise could be made to work with maybe the addition of making a set of soft and smooth faced jaws. But I still found mine was a bit limiting for some uses. I do very little woodworking, but still added an under mount woodworking face vise. They take up little extra room, and none on the bench top itself. For larger items and light duty, it’s in my opinion much more useful than it might seem. The elevation it positions a part at can also be a lot better than a higher bench top mounted vise, hand scraping surfaces to name just one. I even made a set of plywood parallels for it. For M.E. work, my little PanaVise is still the most used for small part de-burring, light filing etc. Held tight enough to work for the task and easy, multi angle part re-orientation is I think more important sometimes than anything else. From my perspective, it just depends on what you need any vise to do.

 

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