Back to Imperial

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Deleted.

Edited By Mick B1 on 17/09/2021 22:16:06

[Anonymous]

Posted by Bill Dawes on 17/09/2021 21:43:29:

I'm 79, 80 in a couple of months, doing model engineering has made me think back to my apprentice days on the shop floor and drawing office and realise now how ridiculous trying to use dimensions such as 37/64" was. Nostalgia apart, metric is far more logical.

'Imperial' is not ipso-facto fractions. I have never in my whole (Imperial) Engineering life used fractions, or seen them used seriously on drawings or elsewhere. 37/64 would be 0.578 ±whatever

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

1 cwt of cement coming back then wasn't that 112lbs.

Anyway don't care. Here in Fuertoventura. You can ask for a half litre or a pint. It gets the result either way.

Steve.

Slightly brown & wobbly.

[Colin WhittakerParticipant @colinwhittaker20544]

12 inches to a foot

3 ft to a yard

22 yds to a chain (and also a cricket pitch)

10 sq chains to an acre

10 chains to a furlong

10 acres to a square furlong

8 furlongs to the mile

1 inch to the mile is 1:63,360

16 oz to a pound

14 pounds to a stone

8 stones to a 100 weight

20 cwt to a ton

not to mention short tons and rods, poles and perches

16 fl oz to a US pint and 20 fl oz to an imperial pint.

2 US pints to a US quart, 2 Imperial pints to an Imperial quart.

4 US quarts to a US gallon, 4 Imperial quarts to an Imperial gallon.

42 US gallons to a barrel

and my favourite …

1 British Thermal Unit = energy needed to raise 1 US pint of water by 1 degF

Are the people who want a return to imperial measurements smart enough to use them?

P.S. There must be a typo above. Please excuse it.

Edited By Colin Whittaker on 18/09/2021 04:55:18

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

Posted by Peter Greene on 17/09/2021 22:16:18:

'Imperial' is not ipso-facto fractions. I have never in my whole (Imperial) Engineering life used fractions, or seen them used seriously on drawings or elsewhere. 37/64 would be 0.578 ±whatever

You were lucky, in the DO where I worked in the 60s all the drawings used fractions such as 37/64" with the occasional decimal one where a tighter tolerance was required, it was only when working for another company in 1971 when the UK changed to decimal currency that the company changed from inch fractions to drawing in millimetres, and both these companies were large Multinationals.

John

Edited By Sandgrounder on 18/09/2021 06:09:35

Edited By Sandgrounder on 18/09/2021 06:12:49

Edited By Sandgrounder on 18/09/2021 06:14:03

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Peter Greene on 17/09/2021 22:16:18:

Posted by Bill Dawes on 17/09/2021 21:43:29:

I'm 79, 80 in a couple of months, doing model engineering has made me think back to my apprentice days on the shop floor and drawing office and realise now how ridiculous trying to use dimensions such as 37/64" was. Nostalgia apart, metric is far more logical.

'Imperial' is not ipso-facto fractions. I have never in my whole (Imperial) Engineering life used fractions, or seen them used seriously on drawings or elsewhere. 37/64 would be 0.578 ±whatever

Hi Peter, below is a scan of part of a commercial drawing showing one of the views of a general arrangement of a machine that I've actually done maintenance on.

And this is the drawing info showing all the tolerances in fractions.

This is just one of the many drawings that I've seen during my working life that have used imperial measurements using fractions and it was common even for awhile after the general use of the metric system although many were using decimals instead of fractions also.

Regards Nick.

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

My current project is an model American civil war cannon. The drawings came off the internet and are in imperial fractions – an absolute nightmare. I am in the process of converting all the dimensions to millimetres, just to make life easier.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Colin Whittaker on 18/09/2021 04:54:04:

12 inches to a foot

3 ft to a yard

22 yds to a chain (and also a cricket pitch)

10 sq chains to an acre

10 chains to a furlong

10 acres to a square furlong

8 furlongs to the mile

1 inch to the mile is 1:63,360

16 oz to a pound

14 pounds to a stone

8 stones to a 100 weight

20 cwt to a ton

not to mention short tons and rods, poles and perches

16 fl oz to a US pint and 20 fl oz to an imperial pint.

2 US pints to a US quart, 2 Imperial pints to an Imperial quart.

4 US quarts to a US gallon, 4 Imperial quarts to an Imperial gallon.

42 US gallons to a barrel

and my favourite …

1 British Thermal Unit = energy needed to raise 1 US pint of water by 1 degF

Are the people who want a return to imperial measurements smart enough to use them?

Anyone who has ever had to explain imperial measurements to someone who has only used metric will know that once you get to the 12 inches to a foot/3 feet to a yard/20 fl oz in a pint/8 pints to a gallon/16 oz to a pound/ 14 pounds to a stone list they'll tell you you're mental. And if you're deluded enough to consider it a system, let alone one that's somehow better, then they'd be right.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Posted by Anthony Knights on 18/09/2021 09:09:47:

My current project is an model American civil war cannon. The drawings came off the internet and are in imperial fractions – an absolute nightmare. I am in the process of converting all the dimensions to millimetres, just to make life easier.

When the metric system was introduced to engineering the first thing we would do is sit and convert the drawing sizes to imperial. Not because we could not think in metric terms but to suit the imperial measuring equipment we had. I am 73 and to this day prefer to use an imperial depth micrometer to a metric one whereas other metric measurement equipment does not bother me and all my machines are metric.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Colin and Nicholas are completely “on the button”.

ALL measurements can be expressed as metric or imperial – it’s just that the sensible units are all metric and virtually everything we buy now is in standard metric units.

Looking at the number of ‘beer guts’ in our population, it mught be a good idea to change from pints to half ltres! Not that it would change the habits of some drinkers.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by not done it yet on 18/09/2021 09:30:08:

Colin and Nicholas are completely “on the button”.

ALL measurements can be expressed as metric or imperial – it’s just that the sensible units are all metric and virtually everything we buy now is in standard metric units

Let's not fall into the 'blah blah unit' makes sense trap. Once you have a strong definition and a way of measuring it repeatably, the actual number is unimportant. What makes metric a workable system is that the real world units of length, volume and weight are directly related. That means that all the units derived from them are also related, and thus calculations are straightforward. Then all the multiples have the same quantity and prefix so Colin's list is unnecessary. Finally, they're base 10 and decimal to be consistent with our number system.

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

Just ask most people what is their height and weight to see how thoroughly they have adapted to the metric system.

I bet a pound to a penny they mostly reply in imperial. That's my two cents.

Alan

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Posted by Alan Jackson on 18/09/2021 10:33:11:

Just ask most people what is their height and weight to see how thoroughly they have adapted to the metric system.

I bet a pound to a penny they mostly reply in imperial. That's my two cents.

Alan

In the UK and US, right perhaps. But in the UK, not my grandchildren and many others. Anyway as I read the short newsd item it was only allowing the use of imperial weights, not dictating them. Traders in our local market have been using imperial anyway.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Spot on Alan, recently went to hospital – was asked height and weight, gave both as imperial, not sure what the nurse wrote down ? Noel.

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

They are not returning us to the imperial system though, it just means you will be free to use it if you are a trader. Just remember that market traders were being taken to court and fined for selling fruit by the pound and then forced to buy metric scales in order to obey Brussels.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by mechman48 on 17/09/2021 17:32:34:

..I am sure that for foodstuffs it makes little difference as long as you aren’t supplied with 453.6g and charged for 500g'

Are you sure your not; & by the way I've not seen anything on sale with a weight of 453.6g it's always 100g, 450g, 500g, 1kg increments.

George.

A jar of Robertson’s Golden shred Marmalade is labelled as 454g, pretty close to 1lb in my book.

Mike

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Looks like classic gesture politics to me, definition: “any action by a person or organisation done for political reasons and intended to attract public attention but having little real effect”.

The source follows the Final Report of the Taskforce on Innovation Growth and Regulatory Reform. The second phase of this is the proposal "Brexit opportunities: regulatory reforms" This is essentially the bullet list:

• Reintroducing the Crown Stamp (on pub glasses)
• Dematerialisation of shares
• Digital Transformation of Regulation
• Review EU restrictions on selling in pounds and ounces – We will review the EU ban on markings and sales in imperial units and legislate in due course.
• Specification for the Sharing of Underground Asset Data
• Expand access to property attribute data held by the Valuation Office Agency –
• Digital driving licences, test certificates and MoT testing
• General Aviation Reform
• Heavy Vehicle MOT Reform
• Aviation Consumer Policy Reform
• Transport Sandboxing
• Modernising diabetes management for lorry and bus drivers
• Repeal of the EU Port Services Regulation
• Ofgem Strategy and Policy Statement (SPS)
• Offshore Network Coordination
• Medicines and Medical Devices Act 2021
• Software and artificial intelligence as a medical device
• Reconsider regulations to allow the spraying of plant protection chemicals from drones
• Electronic Trade Documents when buying and selling internationally.
• Execution of Documents
• Environmental Licencing and Permitting
• Promote a flexible, market-based trading system for biodiversity offset credits
• Digitalisation of Export Health Certificates, Imports, and Trade

All to be introduced 'in due course' and not all of it EU related. To find out what's actually going on I recommend reading the actual documents rather than relying on newspapers, sound bites or bar room opinion. Having inspected the detail, is your government delivering what you expected? If not, tell your MP!!!

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Mike Poole on 18/09/2021 11:05:17:

Posted by mechman48 on 17/09/2021 17:32:34:

..I am sure that for foodstuffs it makes little difference as long as you aren’t supplied with 453.6g and charged for 500g'

Are you sure your not; & by the way I've not seen anything on sale with a weight of 453.6g it's always 100g, 450g, 500g, 1kg increments.

George.

A jar of Robertson’s Golden shred Marmalade is labelled as 454g, pretty close to 1lb in my book.

Mike

Hi, well I prefer Mackays Vintage Dundee Orange marmalade myself, who's weight is in both 340g and 12oz, not very many people can measure the difference between those two.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 18/09/2021 12:13:17

[JAParticipant @ja]

I was working at BSC Corby when tube sizes went metric (on 1 April 1974!). Structural tubes were made in an inch plus 5/8" diameters, ie. 4 5/8" (sensible!). Afterwards the size quoted became 117mm. Have we moved on from there in 47 years? From reading the above, obviously no and some want to go backwards.

I am looking at build a 127mm (5" gauge steam locomotive as a true metric model taking metrification to the next level. I am redesigning it so all the dimensions are sensibly metric (to the nearest 0,5mm), for example 1/2" becomes 12,5mm.

I have two pocket calculators. Both insist on displaying their first answer as a fraction. Not even Clive Sinclar would have done that. I rather liked RPN having used HP calculators years ago (sorry, wrong topic).

JA

I cannot get rid of the first smiley! It should be )

Edited By JA on 18/09/2021 12:56:59

Edited By JA on 18/09/2021 12:58:13

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Over here in Canada, I'd love to be able to purchase more material in metric. Unfortunately, the local metal suppliers have told me that supplies come from the USA, so if I wanted some (eg) true-metric round brass rod, it would have to be ordered from Europe. We, although a metricated country, are surrounded by lovers of the inch.

I'm sure it'll work the same way for Britain – you are surrounded by metric; importing inch-based things from the USA will be more expensive than metric from more local suppliers.

(yes, there are mail-order suppliers of metric metals, but expensive including shipping and import duties. Fortunately, metric fasteners are becoming more popular and available locally)

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Colin Whittaker on 18/09/2021 04:54:04:

16 fl oz to a US pint and 20 fl oz to an imperial pint.

2 US pints to a US quart, 2 Imperial pints to an Imperial quart.

4 US quarts to a US gallon, 4 Imperial quarts to an Imperial gallon.

Edited By Colin Whittaker on 18/09/2021 04:55:18

The problem with this one is when someone imports a modern Yank car and you get American gallons worked into the MPG figure on the dash and you wonder why the figure is always so low.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I always feel a bit shortchanged with 500ml instead of a full pint, mind you they really are taking the mick with the so called schooner 379ml, even the continentals realise an Englishman wants a pint and I have been in many bars where they automatically serve me a 500ml which is the next best thing. All credit to the Germans with the 1l stein but unless you have a fierce thirst it’s getting a bit warm by the end and not being a big fan of lager anyway it is truly disgusting when it’s warm.

Mike

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I buy butter in packs of 454 grams, have done for years.

Bring back Imperial ? That will be the day !!

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

I fail to understand the American obsession with Imperial measurements, after all they were apparently the first country to adopt The Metre Standard which was sometime in the late 1800’s. The imperial standard that they use isn’t the proper authorised version as they don’t have proper quarts and gallons like the rest of us. 🇺🇸😜. Dave W

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Will Putin take Russia back to arshins and vershoks after their next election?

[Author]

Posts