Announcement from Arc Euro Trade Ltd.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

We are getting calls from customers asking if we will be attending the model engineering show in October.

Unfortunately, we will not be attending the show, as it would mean that we would have to close down our website for about ten days, for the period of the show and a few days either side to prepare pre-show and to re-stock after the show.

Our stock is linked into our website in real time, and we cannot afford to keep our website closed during this period, because this would impact on sales to our overseas customers as well as U.K. customers not attending the show.

So, if customers are preparing a shopping list for the show with our name on it, we kindly request that you contact us directly for your requirements in the usual manner, by telephone, via our website, or visit us.

If you know of anyone who would normally buy from us at the show, could I please request that you pass on this message to them, to avoid disappointment.

We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Such a shame Ketan, I always enjoyed browsing your stands ( and I always ended up buying something I really did not intend to!!

Another sign of the 'internet' trading times we live in. Soon there will be no high street as there are no longer 'corner shops' – oh how I miss those!!

CB

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Quite so – and maybe no exhibitions – or only those able to charge exorbitant entry prices! I do sympathise with Ketan however – 10 days loss of orders would take some making up!

Norman

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

But then – on the other hand… Is there a financial gain to be exploited by having a physical presence as well as an internet presence??

I am sitting on the fence and playing Devils advocate

I would prefer to meet my suppliers face to face at times, that gives me confidence when I order over 'tinternet.

CB

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

It shouldn't be too hard for your web developer to add a web page that is private to your staff that can be used to track sales at the show to ensure that your stock database is kept updated in real time.

I would guess that the sales generated by the show would far outway the cost of the changes to the web site.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

CB and Norman,

It was a difficult decision to make. You guys can always visit us. We have a trade counter, and the products are on display at our place.

Clivel,

Your suggestion is easier said then done. Logistics behind movement of an ever increasing product range is one factor, and possibility of show sales creating stock errors is high – even in real time. We have practical experience of this. Also, in our line of business with ever increasing competition, sales generated at the show are not profitable. If you are lucky, you break even. At best, you get good will, which does have value. So, this decision has not been taken lightly.

Ketan at ARC.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by clivel on 21/09/2012 18:58:14:

It shouldn't be too hard for your web developer to add a web page that is private to your staff that can be used to track sales at the show to ensure that your stock database is kept updated in real time.

But how can the sales guys do the internet orders if they are away at the show ?

Plus is something is packed and gos to the show, say a vise and it's ordered over the web site will the customer be prepared to wait 10 days until it gets back into physical stock ?

That also means every sale either back at base or at the show has to be checked to see if the opposite site has sold it ?

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

My Grandad used to say "it's funny as everyone knows how to manage t' kicking Donkey – 'cept bloke as owns it…"

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Steve,

My grandad used to say 'Isn't it a pity that the only blokes who know how to run the country are either driving taxis or cutting hair?'

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

And doing neither very well……………..

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

A suggestion.re upsetting online stock

treat show as SOR reseller..

.

raise order for show stock…take to show sell as required..bookback in after show

don'task me what happened to the formating of this post…mad blo*dy editor

..

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Ketan.

Seeing as you are not doing the Midlands show that's 8 stands free.

So that 8 stands for all these poeple who know how to do it to show you how it's done?

Simples.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/09/2012 19:53:47:

Posted by clivel on 21/09/2012 18:58:14:

It shouldn't be too hard for your web developer to add a web page that is private to your staff that can be used to track sales at the show to ensure that your stock database is kept updated in real time.

But how can the sales guys do the internet orders if they are away at the show ?

Plus is something is packed and gos to the show, say a vise and it's ordered over the web site will the customer be prepared to wait 10 days until it gets back into physical stock ?

That also means every sale either back at base or at the show has to be checked to see if the opposite site has sold it ?

The point is that given a common web database it doesn't have to be checked to see if the opposite site sold it. If I located in Canada buy an item off the web site and you located in the UK buy an item off the web it comes out of the same database, selling from the show should be no different.

 

Seeing as you are not doing the Midlands show that's 8 stands free.

 

So that 8 stands for all these poeple who know how to do it to show you how it's done?

 

Simples.

Besides which I was trying to make what I though was a helpful suggestion, so I don't see why you, are acting like a complete dolt about it. Sometimes your never ending supply of derisive comments can really grate!

 

 

Edited By clivel on 22/09/2012 03:20:31

Edited By clivel on 22/09/2012 03:21:48

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by jason udall on 22/09/2012 00:26:14:

A suggestion.re upsetting online stock

treat show as SOR reseller..

.

raise order for show stock…take to show sell as required..bookback in after show

don'task me what happened to the formating of this post…mad blo*dy editor

..

Jason,

Thanks for your suggestion. This is in fact the first thing we tried in 2008/2009. At that time, our product range by SKUs was lower than it is now. We soon found two problems:

A. The time it took to load each SKU product quantity out and in pre-and post show was getting longer and longer as our product range grew. Really not cost effective.

B. By booking product out for ten days minimum, we were playing with a crystal ball regarding what we would sell at the show. At the same time, people ordering from the website would find that there is no stock for a particular item, when it happens to be an item they need fast, or an item to add to a basket to make up a order which incurs no carriage, or carriage which is perceived to be value for money. In such cases, the item was at the show, where, lets say that no one bought it. So I ended up having no sale from both sides, with an exercise of taking it to the show and bringing it back.

With increased competition at shows, were many traders sold more or less the same thing, we were all fighting for the customers pound, which only made sense for the customer, so what to do?. Difficult to balance costs vs. returns vs. good will.

Ketan at ARC.

[Jim GuthrieParticipant @jimguthrie82658]

Posted by clivel on 22/09/2012 03:14:57:

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/09/2012 19:53:47:But how can the sales guys do the internet orders if they are away at the show ?

Plus is something is packed and gos to the show, say a vise and it's ordered over the web site will the customer be prepared to wait 10 days until it gets back into physical stock ?

That also means every sale either back at base or at the show has to be checked to see if the opposite site has sold it ?

The point is that given a common web database it doesn't have to be checked to see if the opposite site sold it. If I located in Canada buy an item off the web site and you located in the UK buy an item off the web it comes out of the same database, selling from the show should be no different.

Clive,

To carry on from what John Stevenson has said, the most important consideration is, possibly, where your stock is and how you are going handle it. There might also be a consideration about increasing stocking levels so that internet orders for stock items can all be handled from base while the same stock items are at an exhibition and available for purchase. Or you work off one overall source of stock and have a despatch operation running from the exhibition area to handle despatch of items from there. Therefore, if Ketan wanted to maintain the efficiency of his base operation during an exhibition visit, he might have to increase stock, or provide additional remote despatch facilities, or find more staff or have a combination of all three.

I'm not a retailer, so maybe I'm making wrong assumptions here, but I was in business for years and learned, sometimes the hard way, that apparently great ideas should be costed out before implementation.

Jim.

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Living in Scotland the major exhibitions are too far to travel and I have to rely on the mail order companies for equipment. Over the years the standard of service from these companies has improved considerably. I can remember waiting weeks for orders to arrive in the past, whereas delivery now is often next working day.

Just a little plug for Arc Euro, I ordered some items yesterday from them and shortly after received an email telling me I will get them on Monday (next working day) and will be given a 1 hour delivery time slot on Monday morning. Thats what I call impressive service (free carriage as well having spent over £60). Well done, that's all I can say.

Doug

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by clivel on 22/09/2012 03:14:57:

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/09/2012 19:53:47:

Posted by clivel on 21/09/2012 18:58:14:

It shouldn't be too hard for your web developer to add a web page that is private to your staff that can be used to track sales at the show to ensure that your stock database is kept updated in real time.

But how can the sales guys do the internet orders if they are away at the show ?

Plus is something is packed and gos to the show, say a vise and it's ordered over the web site will the customer be prepared to wait 10 days until it gets back into physical stock ?

That also means every sale either back at base or at the show has to be checked to see if the opposite site has sold it ?

The point is that given a common web database it doesn't have to be checked to see if the opposite site sold it. If I located in Canada buy an item off the web site and you located in the UK buy an item off the web it comes out of the same database, selling from the show should be no different.

Seeing as you are not doing the Midlands show that's 8 stands free.

So that 8 stands for all these poeple who know how to do it to show you how it's done?

Simples.

Besides which I was trying to make what I though was a helpful suggestion, so I don't see why you, are acting like a complete dolt about it. Sometimes your never ending supply of derisive comments can really grate!

Clivel,

I know that you were only trying to be helpful. John S's response was born out of frustration. He is a sub-contractor for ARC, and he helps us at the shows. For commercial reasons, he is not allowed to go into certain commercial detail, hence his frustration. Being aware of our show situation, he and Adam (Johns son – the computer technical bod), gave us the same suggestions as you did, to try to help us find a way to continue doing the shows. We tried out your/their suggestions and soon found stock errors caused during accepting/processing orders.

I am not sure if you are aware, but these shows can be very busy. At times, we will have people queuing to be served by four staff behind the counter, who dont have time to eat, let alone go for a p**s. We have two tills – linked into our stock system. They are linked in real time to the stock system when back at base. For a particular show, for an experiment, we linked them remotely to our base, with Adams help. The core stock system link is to the base in Leicester. The website is linked into this also, along with our telephone ordering system, in real time. Lets say I have 10pcs of a vice total in stock. I take 5 to the show and 5 left at base. The website sells 6pcs, so the sixth piece is at the show. A customer comes along, like this last vice, we scan it at the till, till delivers an error, one of my guys either says I cant sell it to you because it has already been sold, or he overrides the system and sells it because we are extremely busy, he does not want griff, or, do we sit there arguing with the customer about why we cant sell it to him? Someone will be disappointed. Now times this stock error issue by the number of products we sell, and soon you have errors all over the place. Even with the speed of update to the core stock, it is difficult to implement after taking into account logistical and human factors.

So, this is the explanation for what John S couldn't tell you, for reasons of commercial confidentiality.

Ketan at ARC.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I think many are missing the point.

 

You are expecting Ketan to pack up , loose money and go to the dhow for basically a toatal of 10 lost working days. take just 'some' of the stock [ what ? ], pay out literally in the  thousands of pounds and for what ?

 

Just so a few semi local UK buyers can browse and possibly buy something, remember not everyone who browse's buys.

 

The part you are miising is that he already has this same retail operation in place not 30 miles away from the show. The same place he's having to pay business rates on even when he's at the show spending the extra tens of thousands of pounds. Plus you don't have to pay £10 to enter his shop, real or virtual.

 

On his own admission, on a good show they break even so lets face it, it's an exercise in futility as regards running a business.

 

The real problem is there are just too many shows around for traders to make a profit, I know nasty word but there has got to be more better equipped model engineers out there than there ever was in the days of LBSC and ETW. And this is all to do with these people taking chances and carrying stock.

 

Everyone wants a bargain, everyone wants to drive the prices down to the lowest they can get and then when they have done this they plead the "NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE" card which should be rewritten to be "Is it fit for purpose given the price paid "

I reckon we can count 7 large shows, not counting various village hall / club shows. All are for profit regardless of what some clubs say, that's how they get their money.

So lets take some willing trader who decides to show the flag at all 7 shows.

You have stand fees af from £700 to £1200 for ONE stand, some like Warco, Chester often have 8 stands.

You need to get to the show, again Chester and Warco run 44 tonnes artics and they don't come cheap.

You need staff and a lot of that is run at overtime rates, then hotels, then meals, then personal tranport.

So lets round this off to say £10,000, times this by 7 and that's £70,000 but you only break even.

 

Seriously, who in this day and age can afford to throw £70,000 away when you could be back at base working on your own LOYAL user base ?

 

I can remember [ just ] going to Wembly, the virtually only show, with a shopping list 3 pages long, then gtting back only to realise I had forgotten something.

Fortunately those times have long gone, Friday evening as I knocked off work I realised I didn't have enought 5mm keys to finish a job next week, went to the computer, banged an order in and they will be with me Monday, simple 5 minute job.

 

Sorry for the rant lads but it's the way of the world, even governments have realised this and are pushing for better internet connections so this country can sell to the world, remember it's not all based at C3 mini-lathe and shed level.

I bet most of you thought it was so the MP's could download porn faster ?

 

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 22/09/2012 09:56:05

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Excellent analysis, John.

And when all is said and done, Ketan is far better qualified than anyone else on this forum when it comes to making business decisions about Arc Euro Trade.

Andy

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

October show? Had to do a double check that the Sandown show is November. Good point from Bogs that is ARC is only 30 miles from thsi show then a detour is easy for them as is going.

Problem with internet shopping is the phenominal postage. Still kicking myself that I didn't get a certain object at the Bristol show that would be £10 postage. Luckily I can wait 'til Sandown unless I spend all my money at the St Albans and District MES show on 29/30 September.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Twelve years ago, my main business as an international broker for bearings, textile printing machine spares, related dyestuffs and chemicals took a nose dive for a variety of reasons, and ARC lost a bucket load of money, to the verge of bankruptcy.

With the help of my banker at the time (yes my bank did help even when I was near bankruptcy), and with the help of many friends in the U.K. and overseas, I started this part of ARCs business, which is based on the principal of investing in stock and taking payment before dispatch….because giving large amounts of open account credit is what killed me originally.

Back then, the internet was not anywhere as developed as it is now. S***bay and S***pal were nothing significant, and the world was still a smaller place. The word at the time was ‘mail order’ and not web sales or e-sales!. Mail Order meant that I had to give out catalogues. With this in mind, we printed our first leaflet – my first catalogue .

I approached the Midlands Model Engineering Exhibition at the time. They told me that they had to maintain a balanced show, so I had to show them exactly what I had in mind, before they could consider my application for a stand. They accepted my proposal and gave me a stand. Thanks to them, Mike Chrip, Roy Darlington and other key figures in ARCs history, visitors to the show started to get to know us, slowly gaining trust in our company. For this, I am always grateful to the Midlands show and other shows, who helped me to establish and maintain loyal customers.

Back then, profit margins were great. In fact, I can clearly remember the day when one year – in October 2003 I think, we had made fantastic profit at the Midland show. I was well over the moon. Ask the regular security guards Richard and Ken at the Midlands Show – they will tell you.

Over time, S***bay, S***pal, general internet grew stronger to what they are today. Margins have suffered as all us competitors have grown over time, and new competitors are born every day, be it legal entities, or illegal tax avoiding operations namely on S***bay and S***pal, against whom we have to compete.

So, at some point, something has to give, which is always a difficult decision for any business to make.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 22/09/2012 12:06:00

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi John S,

I have no axe to grind on this discussion, I miss Ketan and Arc at the show but understand and respect his decision. Apart from actual show sales though his demonstrations of CNC and display of goods etc may have generated business down the line, who knows, only careful analysis could show that. 

Perhaps it's not always about direct sales, it is a show after all, not a market.  I have bought a fair amount over the years, but only relatively small items at shows.  I often go to compare and inspect items then go away, reflect on what I have seen, make my decision and then buy, If I have no chance to make a comparison I probably would not consider buyng a particular item of equipmen from a particular supplier.  I am sure that there are many others like me who use a show as an opportunity to see what is on offer in order to help decision making.

Just another comment, I live on an almost straight line between Syston and Meridienne, just about halfway, and it's 22 miles to Syston and 20 miles to Meridienne. Just a bit more in total than the 'not 30 miles' that you say. A small, perhaps pedantic, point but some may question your accuracy on other matters if you are that inaccurate on distances.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 22/09/2012 12:15:34

Edited By Terryd on 22/09/2012 12:16:46

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Agreed Terry,

So considering that you are only 22 miles from Syston, you really have no excuse for not visiting us to look at products, any time of the year….and as always…we will throw in a cup of tea,especially for you

By the way, It is John and his son who do the demos on our stands at the shows. Another costly cross I have to/ sorry had to bare…In turn, after seeing the demos, some of the potential buyers, especially the Irish – regular as clockwork, try to bypass us and go to SIEG directly to try and buy the CNC machines!….we have one of these every two weeks!!..especially as the prices go up.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 22/09/2012 12:33:43

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Ketan,

I get up as often as I am able, in fact I intend to buy another C0 to replace the one lost in my fire a couple of years ago, so you will see me quite soon, but you never seem to be there at the same time as me .

I can of course sympathise with your dilemma, and as I said quite understand your decision, it's just a shame I won't be able to peruse your stands again. C'est la vie regrettably. I'll hold you to the promise of tea nest time I visit.

Hmmmm Seig direct, I hadn't thought of that!!! -Just kidding ,

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 22/09/2012 13:08:20

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