Amadeal Lathe

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 30/08/2016 07:48:34:

Applogies for going off thread here but it is being suggested that running slow puts a higher load on a variable speed motor- is that correct?

I ask because on my warco 250mv i usually start on slow speed, build up to speed i want then start the cut.

It would seem from the comments above that may not be a good thing on variable speed lathes and that having selected a speed i should stay with it & not keep going back to slow speed and back up again every time i stop

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 30/08/2016 07:51:18

I have the 250V-F lathe too… on start up I switch it on at bottom speed let it run for a couple of seconds then ramp up to speed required, from then on I switch on/off at the set speed as I need to without ramping down to bottom rpm every time. Some times, as needed, I ramp up or down from the initial set speed which is usually in the region of 600rpm. when I've finished for the day I switch the machine off, then I turn the dial down to fully off position ready for start up next time, the same applies to my WM16 mill.

George.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 30/08/2016 07:48:34:

Applogies for going off thread here but it is being suggested that running slow puts a higher load on a variable speed motor- is that correct?

No its fine to do that, its continued running at low speeds under load that causes overheating because the fan barely works at low speeds.

Neil

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 30/08/2016 18:21:57:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 30/08/2016 07:48:34:

Applogies for going off thread here but it is being suggested that running slow puts a higher load on a variable speed motor- is that correct?

No its fine to do that, its continued running at low speeds under load that causes overheating because the fan barely works at low speeds.

Neil

Thanks

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Frances IoM on 30/08/2016 07:16:56:
Duncan
can you give more details of your Perris scheme – I'd like to update my small Perris as well

Frances I've sent you a pm

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by blowlamp on 30/08/2016 15:43:52:

I fitted my mini-lathe with something similar to this and haven't looked back since.

 

.

Martin,

That looks a very useful motor assembly … But, I'm bewildered by the 'Fan', which doesn't really look desined to blow or suck … Are there hidden details ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2016 08:41:46

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For no obvious reason, I am unable to edit my last post

[although the 'facility' is still visible]

..

On further thought, I suppose that Martin's fan must fling the air radially outward, and thereby draw air through the motor.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2016 09:26:07

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

Michael

As I understand it (and correct me if I am wrong) … the plain shaped bladed fan is normally used in conjunction with a cowl. The air is drawn into the cowl and into the center of the fan. The air is then 'flung' away from the center of the fan, and the cowl then directs the air flow down the side of the motor. The fan blades are simple as they are easier to make, but they create more noise being that shape.

It looks to me that the motor in question could do with a cowl. But I suppose, as long as it is moving air near the the motor then cooling will take place, although less efficiently.

Maybe the holes in the blade have something to do with airflow?

Steve

Edited By Steven Vine on 31/08/2016 10:42:12

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by blowlamp on 30/08/2016 15:43:52:

I fitted my mini-lathe with something similar to this and haven't looked back since.

What motor is that, Martin?

Neil

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

We can speculate or discuss the finer points of the fan fitted to Blowlamp's motor but its an irrelevance to the original topic.

The motor itself, or rather the use of a 'sewing machine' motor is very relevant to driving a lathe. I have only done a small amount of Googling since I saw Blowlamp' picture but it seems to me that these motors could be game changer for driving much of our smaller workshop machines.

These sewing machine motors are no different in principle to other brushless motors but I suspect the sewing machine market is quite large so pricing and specification is quite good. They seem to be sold complete with driver and accessories to allow retro fitting by non engineering customers. Most are complete with a linkage to a foot deal to vary speed. Some are described as 'servo' motors which means that even if its not a true, all singing all dancing precision servo, it will be very controllable (good for tapping, screwcutting etc).

The one in blowlamps picture appears to have a ribbon cable between the motor and controller (so not very robust) but others I found in searches have better cables and connectors. I'm tempted to buy one just to experiment and fit to an X1 type mill I have that is just sitting around.

Ian P

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I would have thought that the fan would be fitted he other way round, with the blades next to the motor. The fandraws air through the motor, and flings it out sideways. A cover would be useful in directing the air in a direction that doesn't make for a nuisance.

Ian S C

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ian Phillips on 31/08/2016 11:28:30:

We can speculate or discuss the finer points of the fan fitted to Blowlamp's motor but its an irrelevance to the original topic.

.

With respect, Ian … I think the fan design is very relevant to anyone considering an alternative motor.

However; please feel free to discuss the facets of the problem that interest you.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2016 11:48:39

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Steven Vine on 31/08/2016 10:38:58:

… the plain shaped bladed fan is normally used in conjunction with a cowl.

.

Yes, that was my thinking

Hopefully, Martin will tell us more

MichaelG.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Ian SC is correct about that particular fan being the wrong way round, although to be fair we don't know if there is an air passage through that motor as we cannot see through the fan. The holes in the fan will serve no useful cooling purpose which ever way the fan is fitted.

Michael, I'm sure my problems and their facets will be of no interest to anyone on this forum so I'll just keep taking the medication!

Ian P

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I've fitted a Brushless DC sewing machine motor similar to the one I linked to in my previous post. The reason for the fan being 'in the open' is that my motor came combined with its controller in one casing, which was gutted and then discarded, taking the fan cowling with it. Consequently, there's more of a draught than a flow over the motor, but it still seems to have a good cooling effect, although the motor barely warms up anyway. My feeling is that the fan's not really necessary.

In use the arrangement gives more than enough torque and the controller compensates quite nicely with deep roughing cuts by keeping the rpm reasonably steady.

Whilst at the conversion I got rid of the weak two-speed headstock setup and more or less copied the Sieg brushless mini-lathe direct drive arrangement.

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 31/08/2016 12:21:58

Edited By blowlamp on 31/08/2016 12:23:08

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

Posted by Ian Phillips on 31/08/2016 11:55:11:

Ian SC is correct about that particular fan being the wrong way round, although to be fair we don't know if there is an air passage through that motor as we cannot see through the fan. The holes in the fan will serve no useful cooling purpose which ever way the fan is fitted.

Michael, I'm sure my problems and their facets will be of no interest to anyone on this forum so I'll just keep taking the medication!

Ian P

Hi Ian

Out of interest, is that right, that the fan is on the shaft the wrong way around? That orientation looks correct to me (though I have not seen the cowl arrangement for this assembly). That orientation is how they are on all the motors I have attended to (and that is quite a lot). Mind you, I have never dealt with a sewing machine motor.

Steve

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I have a two-step pulley on the motor but I don't use the high speed one. I'm minded to increase the diameter of the pulley on my spindle to shift the speed ranges so I get a more usable high speed one and a higher torque low one.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by blowlamp on 31/08/2016 12:03:16:

… Consequently, there's more of a draught than a flow over the motor, but it still seems to have a good cooling effect, although the motor barely warms up anyway. My feeling is that the fan's not really necessary. …

.

Thanks, Martin … That's very useful to know.

MichaelG.

[Jim O’Connell 1Participant @jimoconnell1]

Getting back to my problem. I have contacted Amadeal and they say they I am still covered.

So by agreement I am sending them the motor and the circuit board to be checked out.

Fingers crossed, and I will let you guys know how I get on.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2016 08:40:57:

Posted by blowlamp on 30/08/2016 15:43:52:

I fitted my mini-lathe with something similar to this and haven't looked back since.

.

Martin,

That looks a very useful motor assembly … But, I'm bewildered by the 'Fan', which doesn't really look desined to blow or suck … Are there hidden details ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2016 08:41:46

If there was a close fitting plate up against the fan it would pull air through the holes in the fan and expel it radially. as it is it looks wrong

[Ray GandertonParticipant @rayganderton56482]

In any event, I would not worry too much: A similar motor from Machine Mart is less than £50.

[Jim O’Connell 1Participant @jimoconnell1]

I got in touch with Amadeal and they said the motor was still in warranty.>>

I returned the motor and the circuit board to be checked out and it arrived back yesterday.>>

10 out of 10>>

Now I just have to put it back together!!! Just as well I took lots of pics.>>

[Author]

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