Am I getting an irritable old git?

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by larry phelan 1 on 01/07/2018 19:44:18:

Perhaps that should be "Queens English"?

As in the dialect they might speak in New York's largest borough?

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I'm another "old git", mid-70's coming up in 19 days time. And as you will notice, I have used one apostrophe, two quote marks, one dash, two commas and two full stops to the end of this sentence. I failed English Language at 'O' Level, along with failing English Literature and French. I also did two years of Latin, started off poor, and became worse. I can therefore claim to have failed every language and associated subject that I have ever attempted.

And yet, a few years ago, when a letter of mine was published in a choral society newsletter, one of our members, a PhD in English Literature no less, complimented me on my standard of English. Perhaps confirmation of the adage that if one can spell and write clearly, then one must be over the age of 50.

I do like to see English correctly written, with correct grammar, spelling and punctuation, but I am also aware that there are people reading this forum for whom English is not their first language, hence I do try to accept their offerings. There are also people for whom English is indeed their first language, but through force of circumstances do not have a good grasp of English. Again, as long as I can understand their writing, then so be it, it is not my place to correct them. So-called "txtspk" is, in my view, an aberration, caused by laziness. I do have a mobile 'phone (not a smart 'phone) and do not find it difficult to use correct spelling and punctuation. Yes it does take slightly longer, but does that extra time matter if the end result is that the recipient clearly understands the message therein? It's also noticeable to me that my children and grandchildren do not use "txtspk" when they send me the occasional text message – perhaps they consider me to be an "old git" who is past it.

I know that language does evolve, unfortunately in some respects backwards. I think therefore, that it behoves those of us with some knowledge of grammar, spelling and punctuation to continue producing correct English in the hope that some of it will rub off onto those less fortunate than ourselves. Incidentally, this software has just underlined "behoves", a perfectly valid word according to my Oxford English dictionary!

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

BUT, this forum is not the platform to compete with those amongst us, who have struggled,

in various ways, with the written word.

There are probably such forums around, but this one is supposed to be focused on engineering.

After all, language is only a means of communicating ones thoughts, etc to another.

The last thing this forum community should want, is intimidating other worthwhile members, and beginners seeking assistance, from joining in, because they have not had the benefit of that wonderful grammar school education.

Not going to edit post, but please receive it in the spirit with which it is posted.

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by fizzy on 01/07/2018 19:01:10:

I see no point in putting the apostrophy in cant for example

Perhaps if you considered that cant is a word which indicates an angular misalignment?

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

The use of the word new build when they mean new building ,construction or model ,if I'm correct build is a verb and not to be used as a noun.Spend is another and where have plurals gone to, the use of the word more seems to have taken over.Sorry to be an old 72 year old gitt.

Frank

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by larry phelan 1 on 01/07/2018 19:06:13:

Andrew,be very careful where you thread [in case you put your foot in it ], I drew attention to this very subject some time ago and was roundly attacked by several members for my trouble..

I'm surprised they bothered to make the effort if they though learning to better use their native language wasn't worth it! 😀

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Deborah doesn't like it, the way I comb my hair

Deborah doesn't like all the clothes I wear

playing all my records, singing to the band

but I am what I am and I'm gonna keep a rocking this way

I'm a rockabilly rebel…

We are ailing, we are ailing, rheumy eyes, and balding pate,

we are ailing, we are ailing, trembling hands and stum

bling gait.

The old ones, Darling we're the old ones, and old ones shouldn't be afraid.

to live, love, as the years roll on, for we won't be the old ones very long…

Cheer up, we're not dead yet!

Geoff

[Bodger BrianParticipant @bodgerbrian]

Woman; without her, man is nothing

Woman; without her man, is nothing

Slight difference in punctuation, totally different meaning.

Brian

[RevStewParticipant @revstew]

I may be just a young ponder of 44, but I'm looking forward to spending my autumn years in the garden shed, in the manner of a hermit, whilst only occasionally coming out to go fishing.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Nick Hulme on 01/07/2018 20:27:35:

Posted by fizzy on 01/07/2018 19:01:10:

I see no point in putting the apostrophy in cant for example

Perhaps if you considered that cant is a word which indicates an angular misalignment?

it also means

hypocritical and sanctimonious talk, typically of a moral, religious, or political nature.

so the apostrophe is quite useful really.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

To directly answer the question, yes, you are.

Not that I regard it as a problem, feeling the same way myself.

Regards,

Richard.

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Does anjyone here on the 'Speaking English thread' know where thare are any useful engineering forums?

Sorry but I couldn't (could not) resist. I have occassional difficulty with correct spelling of words, it's like a random failing that isn't easily explained, but even I hate the use of the word 'OF' when it should be 'have' as in, I could of used that.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

build can be a noun e.g. “speaking of ships she was a good example of her build” …
though the OED states seldom used of masonry or buildings

the use of build to refer to what today would be described as a building can be found but obsolete for last few centuries

As for cant there is another use that of a public auction (common in the documents I’m researching being 18th century land deeds)

Edited By Frances IoM on 01/07/2018 21:32:05

[Anonymous]

Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 01/07/2018 21:30:06:

Does anjyone here on the 'Speaking English thread' know where thare are any useful engineering forums?

Not on this forum. The language of engineering is mathematics and that's even less understood than English.

Andrew

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Languages evolve continuously and expressions mean whatever the users think they mean.

Context will usually identify whether 'cant' is an unusual spelling of 'can't' (although George Bernard Shaw used it this way), or relates to hypocritical verbosity or angular displacement, or even a misspelling of the eminent 18thC German philosopher.

If I can't understand a posting, or find it too hard work to plough through it, I just ignore it. There's really no point in ranting about it, as it's unlikely the poster would understand anyway, never mind see fit to mend their delivery.

Garbled posts will result in incorrect or irrelevant answers, and either the posters will learn, or not.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Curiously many people who object to poor written English are also proud of being hopeless at maths. The latter failing is, of course, far more embarrassing!

I believe everyone brings something to the party; you can't disrespect Stephen Hawking for lacking basic engineering skills, or a plumber because he's not good at apostrophising, or fellow Model Engineers for not reading Spinoza.

I'm quite happy to engage with all posts; to me communication is more important than presentation.

Can anyone explain the difference between a pregnant past participle and an orphaned gerund? If not standards have clearly slipped since I was at Primary School…

Dave

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

I have been following this post just to see where it leads. I think that we have all at sometime experienced "dyslexic fingers" while typing or have been "helped" by spellcheck to put in the wrong word.

It is always nice if the grammar and spelling are correct, but none of us are perfect, so there are bound to be little errors here and there. It only really matters if the errors alter the complete sense of the statement made.

At this stage, I am reminded of the following passage from "Through the Looking Glass":

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

Neil

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Removed by V8.

Edited By V8Eng on 01/07/2018 23:42:20

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

"Am I getting an irritable old git?"

No. You are getting to be an irritable old git.

To get an irritable old git you might have to go down to your local pub during the day. There are usually groups of them hanging about moaning about the state of the world. You could get several irritable old gits if you wanted to.

 

Edited By Hopper on 02/07/2018 01:56:24

[Anonymous]

Posted by Mick B1 on 01/07/2018 21:35:51:

If I can't understand a posting, or find it too hard work to plough through it, I just ignore it. There's really no point in ranting about it, as it's unlikely the poster would understand anyway, never mind see fit to mend their delivery.

Garbled posts will result in incorrect or irrelevant answers, and either the posters will learn, or not.

+1

Andrew

[Anonymous]

Posted by Ady1 on 01/07/2018 23:58:49:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

It's closer to the truth than you might think.

UK readers may have seen recent press coverage about the spat at King's College in Cambridge, where, ironically, a left wing academic has accused the working class porters of racism and sexism for refusing to address her as doctor. The lady concerned is in the English department. It's not the first time King's has had problems with English academics. Back in the early 80s there was a rumpus when an English lecturer was refused tenure, ostensibly due to his stance on structuralism. As I understand it that postulates that the meaning of the words is irrelevant, but what is important is the order of the words in relation to each other, and to outside structures. And no, I don't understand it either. Google Colin Maccabe.

Andrew

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

The things that get to
me are like and do you know what I mean.
Do you know what I mean?

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

Cowboy 1: Hey, partner! Go help your uncle jack off a horse!

Cowboy 2: How many times do I have to tell you, it's "help your Uncle Jack off a horse!

Cowboy 1: Oh, sorry for making that homosexual grammar error!

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Years ago I had a manager who did not speak to us commoners. One morning a note was pinned to the workshop door — " break light on forklift " So I sent one back " which light ?" He was not amused at all. I still enjoy the memory, sad is it not?

[Author]

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