Aircraft General Discussion

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

There is another one this side of the Tasman, must look out a photo. Ian S C

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Doesn’t look big enough.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

It was not a big aircraft, the span 9,5m/31ft 2", and the length 9m/29ft 5" (FW-190)

Spitfire " 11.23m/36Ft 10" " 8.12m/ 29ft 11"

so it's over all dimensions are a little smaller than a Spitfire, and a Spitfire is not a big aircraft, both Germany, and Britain had the design idea of building the smallest aeroplane they could around the most powerful engine, the best armament, and a little bit of room for a pilot.

Ian S C

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

Sounds like commercial air travel nowadays.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

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Bit of a quiz for aircraft buffs. **LINK**

Nick

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I managed 40

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

I got 45 but I was in the ROC many years ago.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Nick_G on 25/05/2017 12:09:55:

.

Bit of a quiz for aircraft buffs. **LINK**

Nick

Lol, I got 43 correct but I was born after the events. My late father used to fly Wellington Bombers btw.

* Danny M *

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

I stopped off at Old Warden on the way home tonight. The DH88 Comet & a brace of Mew Gulls were practicing their display before going off to Duxford for this weekend's air show. So nice to have the Collection nearly on the doorstep!

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Just hearing on the news that British Airways has been grounded by a computer glitch. people are being warned not to go to Heathrow, or Gatwick.

Ian S C

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by DrDave on 26/05/2017 18:39:49:

I stopped off at Old Warden on the way home tonight. The DH88 Comet & a brace of Mew Gulls were practicing their display before going off to Duxford for this weekend's air show. So nice to have the Collection nearly on the doorstep!

I've been working in Portsmouth all this week and on my way home yesterday afternoon my wife said they were buzzing around our village during the afternoon.

Martin P

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ian S C on 27/05/2017 14:09:22:

Just hearing on the news that British Airways has been grounded by a computer glitch. people are being warned not to go to Heathrow, or Gatwick.

Ian S C

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**LINK**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40069865

MichaelG.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Yes, I am glad not to be travelling today but it has advantages. Living about 6miles from Heathrow I was standing in the garden thinking "Where have all the planes gone?" Very quiet. Just the one very high con-trail. They can do this every weekend if they like

John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Just read on another site (Wings over New Zealand) that a Sea Vixen has made a forced landing at Duxford with it's wheels and flaps up due to a hydraulic failure. It looks as though the drop tanks took most of the punishment.

Ian S C

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

The Sea Vixen made a wheels up landing at Yeovilton after returning from displaying at Duxford yesterday, https://theaviationist.com/2017/05/27/sea-vixen-does-wheels-up-emergency-landing-at-duxford/ there is a selection of excellent photographs of the landing at Yeovilton.

Martin P

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

de Havilland Tiger Moth meet this weekend at Shuttleworth. We have had Moths fluttering round the house all afternoon. The Dragon Rapide came past, too. The rumour that I heard was that Geoffrey de Havilland used to chalk the aircraft profile on the floor of the hanger & get his men to work to that. (Awaits someone to tell me that I made that up!). The tails of his aircraft are certainly distintive.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Channel 37 on [UK] FreeView TV is 'Quest'

We've just been watching 'The Race for Flight' [a Discovery Channel programme]

We recorded this afternoon, but it's scheduled for repeat tomorrow at 17:00hrs

Amazing archive photos, and modern re-creations !!

Catch it if you can.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by DrDave on 10/06/2017 18:34:08:

… The rumour that I heard was that Geoffrey de Havilland used to chalk the aircraft profile on the floor of the hanger & get his men to work to that. (Awaits someone to tell me that I made that up!). …

Not wrong I think, rather one step in a process.

Shipbuilding used to require a large floor space called a Mould Loft. It was used to translate curves from the designers sheer plan into their full size equivalents by pinning bent laths to the floor and chalking or scribing the line on the floor. After that the ship under construction's timber or plating could be matched to the curve or – more usually with a metal ship – a template made. A ship's hull is made of complex curves to optimise it's performance in water. The plates and framing needed to build the hull are even more complex.

The same technique can be used to build a prototype aircraft, which is also streamlined with complex curves in the fuselage. That's probably why they were chalking the floor: de Havilland wasn't designing the aircraft, they were laying it out, a skilled process in itself.

By the by, a lath is a strip of bendy wood and also the bow part of a crossbow. As turns were often driven by a bow I wonder if lath is where we get 'lathe' from. If so we're all getting the nomenclature wrong. In pedant mode I own a turns, not a lathe, and it's driven by a motor, not a lath. Or, droogs, I'm talking yarbles again!

Dave

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

VC 10 and BAC 1-11 were lofted manually onto 8' x 4' aluminium sheets using mapping pens and red striping laccour – also some of Concorde at BAC Weybridge in the mold loft . French chalk was used to blot wet paint using an unfortunately named powder called PONCE POWDER.
In 1966, I was one of the first in the team using Numerical control to 'loft' tail fin and wing profiles of Concorde using a GERBER flat bed plotter (12' x 5&#39, 8 hole paper tapes with X,Y and Z co-ordinates punched in them. Also had vectors at each point. These tapes were produced on an ICL 1905A "main frame computer" with 64k of magnetic core memory, 7 x 1/2" reel to reel mag tape decks and a single 10 Mb disc drive. Them were the days. Run instructions were placed into a box file with 1s 3d for the operators night shift coffee. No money and a poor chance of getting the overnight job run.
BobH (Vickers Weybridge/BAC 1963 – 1970)

Ps the "laths" were tapered and called "splines"

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 10/06/2017 21:33:58:

…

Ps the "laths" were tapered and called "splines"

That's right and, even better, the info took me to 'lesbian rule' – you couldn't make it up, could you!

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

Ah, how times have changed. The first aircraft that I worked on (late 1980s) was drawn on a real drawing board with pen & ink. The drawings were printed onto the sheet aluminium, which was then cut and formed by hand.

Now the design is all done in CAD. We are currently designing a modification to an aeroplane that, physically, is in a different country. To ensure that our parts will fit, a CAD file is emailed to the factory where a template is laser cut. The template is then trial fitted to the aircraft and digital photos are sent back so that we can see where the problems are. Remarkable!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 10/06/2017 20:45:55:

… By the by, a lath is a strip of bendy wood and also the bow part of a crossbow. As turns were often driven by a bow I wonder if lath is where we get 'lathe' from. If so we're all getting the nomenclature wrong. In pedant mode I own a turns, not a lathe, and it's driven by a motor, not a lath. Or, droogs, I'm talking yarbles again!

Dave

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Sorry, Dave … I don't think your pedantry is quite valid; unless your 'non-lathe' has dead centres like a bodger's pole lathe, or a watchmaker's turns.

MichaelG.

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Ah, but ponce is an artists term. Ponce powder is used in a ponce bag in conjunction with a ponce wheel, which is also used on fabric patterns. I guess one of the most famous ponce users was da Vinci, who ponced through a paper cartoon onto the wet plaster in the Sistine Chapel. In case one hasn't seen a ponce wheel, it's a spiked wheel on the end of a handle, which is rolled over the paper pattern to leave holes. The fabric ponce bag is then tapped against the paper so that the ponce powder (basically chalk) leaks through the weave and into the holes in the paper. When the paper is removed, the design is left, ready for the artist to colour inside the lines, essentially the Sistine Chapel was a paint by numbers project.

And CAD. I still always draught out my designs on the draughting table, before I transfer them to the CAD program. I get a much better idea of what I'm creating. CAD though is much better when it comes to modifying drawings later and I can print out full size sheets to transfer to whatever material I'm using. Sometimes using ponce powder.

Ian

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Always called ponce pounce.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/06/2017 22:32:17:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 10/06/2017 20:45:55:

…

.

Sorry, Dave … I don't think your pedantry is quite valid; …

MichaelG.

I know, getting it wrong ourselves is the cruel fate of all pedants…

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