Pulley wheels I think‽

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Pulley wheels I think‽

This topic has 25 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 7 March 2016 at 18:07 by Michael Gilligan.

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4 March 2016 at 22:00 #228371
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
Hi,

Hope you've all recovered since my last insane request. Because it the weekend my mind is working overtime and I'm struggling.

I'm trying to find some pulley wheels to upgrade a 44mm diameter table saw. My problem is I can source drive shafts. I can source mounted bearings. But I need to transfer the power from one pulley to another via the drive shaft which means that the drive shaft need to be fixed to the pulley. I assume similar to the old mechano style pullies but be capable of turning at 5000 rpm without exploding. Now my terminology is always faulty and open to correction but I'm hopeful the reference to the old construction kit even if spelt wrong. Helps.

I am also on the hunt for a flanged arbour for the same to hold a 10mm bore 58mm saw blade.

For some reason it seems only the USA has these sorts of thing but as the postage is four time the cost of the part it's not a goer. Even if some one is willing to create these things I'm willing to pay a fair price. I just want to get them.

Please can anyone help‽ ?

Your friendly neighbourhood nutter.

Izzy
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4 March 2016 at 22:00 #8033
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
5 March 2016 at 06:21 #228382
Sam Longley 1
Participant
@samlongley1
Are you describing plummer blocks & shaft

If so then as a starter try http://www.arvis.co.uk/products.php?product=33

then start googling around that

I do recall seeing saw table sets years ago which had a shaft mounted on 2 plummer blocks & machined to take pulley one end & sawblade the other. Try J & M Belts or a bearing supplier & they may be able to source a suitable set
5 March 2016 at 06:44 #228386
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 05/03/2016 06:21:20:

I do recall seeing saw table sets years ago which had a shaft mounted on 2 plummer blocks & machined to take pulley one end & sawblade the other.

.

Izzy,

Look for an old Picador catalogue … you should find plenty of inspiration along the lines that Sam suggests.

MichaelG.
5 March 2016 at 07:12 #228387
John Hinkley
Participant
@johnhinkley26699
Unless I've very much misunderstood the original posting, I think izzy is going to have difficulty finding plummer blocks small enough to accommodate a saw blade of 58mm diameter. At 5000rpm, you are getting towards Dremel speeds! A picture of the set up with the original 44mm blade might help us to visualise what you are trying to achieve. I have in my mind a saw table for producing matchsticks, at that size!

John
5 March 2016 at 07:20 #228388
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Good point, John

I was only suggesting the old Picador products for 'inspiration'

MichaelG.

.

Also worth looking at this article about a miniature Spindle Moulder [thanks, Neil]; which is on the right sort of scale.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/03/2016 07:27:00
5 March 2016 at 08:57 #228397
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
> My problem is I can source drive shafts. I can source mounted bearings.

Not sure Izzy needs help finding plummer blocks… he wants small pulley that will lock to the shaft and be OK for 5000 rpm.

I suggest looking for H-section poly-vee pulleys and belts.

http://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/belts/poly-v-belts/

A suitable flange wouldn't be hard to turn from scratch.

Neil
5 March 2016 at 09:38 #228401
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/03/2016 08:57:39:

> My problem is I can source drive shafts. I can source mounted bearings.

Not sure Izzy needs help finding plummer blocks… he wants small pulley that will lock to the shaft and be OK for 5000 rpm.

I suggest looking for H-section poly-vee pulleys and belts.

http://www.bearingshopuk.co.uk/belts/poly-v-belts/

A suitable flange wouldn't be hard to turn from scratch.

Neil

.

Neil,

I can find the H-section poly-vee belts, but no suitable pulleys

MichaelG.
5 March 2016 at 10:09 #228410
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Second table down, belt pullies for 8mm shafts. I'd go with round belting as the pullies are going to need to be quite small dia particularly the one on the saw spindle if you are going to get any depth of cut.

HPC have the poly V pullies but they start at about 60mm dia

What bore is the existing 44mm blade? may just be able to use a bush to allow the new 10mm one to fit the existing flange

Edited By JasonB on 05/03/2016 10:21:38
5 March 2016 at 10:35 #228417
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
I think Meccano pullies would be safe at 5000 rpm. Search on ebay for "meccano pulley"

Les.
5 March 2016 at 10:51 #228420
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
> I'd go with round belting as the pullies are going to need to be quite small dia particularly the one on the saw spindle if you are going to get any depth of cut.

The minimum diameter for H-section poly v is 13mm and you can have any amount fo power transfer just by making it wider.

They can be very compact, if you can find someone who stocks or can order goodyear belts the smallest is 100H which gives you a centre distance of about 30mm with 13mm pulleys.

Neil
5 March 2016 at 10:55 #228423
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/03/2016 10:51:46:

The minimum diameter for H-section poly v is 13mm and you can have any amount fo power transfer just by making it wider.

They can be very compact, if you can find someone who stocks or can order goodyear belts the smallest is 100H which gives you a centre distance of about 30mm with 13mm pulleys.

.

+1

… assuming that you can buy [afford], or make suitable pulleys.

MichaelG.
5 March 2016 at 11:15 #228426
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
Proxxon's FET table saw runs at 7000rpm and uses Optibelt toothed drive belt. Their saw bore is 10mm dia.
5 March 2016 at 12:14 #228435
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 05/03/2016 10:55:56:

… assuming that you can buy [afford], or make suitable pulleys.

MichaelG.

I suspect you have to make – they are little used by industry but turn up in copiers, printers and the like.

Very easy to make, but I'm not sure if Isaac has a lathe?

If not, time to get one

Neil
5 March 2016 at 22:40 #228509
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
Hi,

Sorry for the late replies I've been out all day with family. I've not read anything yet but I'm sure your advice is invaluable as always.

Thanks in advance
5 March 2016 at 22:58 #228511
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
Hi,

I thank you all. And I think my main issue is either I don't know the right name for what I need or as with Sam and such is that they don't do this sort of thing nowadays.

The original flange for the 44mm blade is bore/shaft. It. Was the extra width of the proxxon b,aides I was hopeful of using. Hence the wish for a 10mm shaft with flange.

But I can get toothed pullies used for 3D printers that have a grub screw and would work. I assume. But that means using a toothed belt. Which if the blade should jam then I can see the motor burning out. It just seem odd that there is nothing orpther than mechano which I did consider but I'm concerned with the the rpm and the off balance scre used and the fact that most are just pressed plate.

The 5000 rpm I got from the proxxon specs so I must have read them wrong. But that is the sort of thing I'm hopeful of making but as I've got six 12v motors and three sewing machine motors I want the flexibility of being able to change the motors as they wear out. But I can't do that with the modern direct drive we use here. Hence the need for pullies as gears would be to much of a strain on the motor but with idlers pullies to tension the belts. I can then make a tilting variable depth saw from a £30 model. And this is for making parts of similar dimensions to matches up to say 6mm acrylic and 20mm soft wood. And as the existing saw which is just a motor a grub screw flange and a switch. I have to make my own table then so long as the pullies are all the same size the speed should remain constant. But where to get the pullies required to transmit the power through the shaft so that the blade can tilt and rise and fall. Which needs at least two separate sections preferably three. So that's two shaft the power need to go along.
5 March 2016 at 23:03 #228513
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
Posted by JasonB on 05/03/2016 10:09:30:

Second table down, belt pullies for 8mm shafts. I'd go with round belting as the pullies are going to need to be quite small dia particularly the one on the saw spindle if you are going to get any depth of cut.

HPC have the poly V pullies but they start at about 60mm dia

What bore is the existing 44mm blade? may just be able to use a bush to allow the new 10mm one to fit the existing flange

Edited By JasonB on 05/03/2016 10:21:38

This is exact what I need perhaps I a smallest sizes. As for pulley belts there are lads to choose from for RC cars. Which are cheap and short. I've got a way of fabricating a main drive shaft but was hopeful someone may be able to direct me to one ready made as my method is ver Heath Robinson. But will work.
5 March 2016 at 23:06 #228514
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/03/2016 12:14:12:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 05/03/2016 10:55:56:

… assuming that you can buy [afford], or make suitable pulleys.

MichaelG.

I suspect you have to make – they are little used by industry but turn up in copiers, printers and the like.

Very easy to make, but I'm not sure if Isaac has a lathe?

If not, time to get one

Neil

I do have a lathe a very small uni at style one. But I lack the skills and confidence for that to be the prime option and was hopeful that I could buy first and replace with better.
5 March 2016 at 23:14 #228517
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 05/03/2016 07:20:48:

Good point, John

I was only suggesting the old Picador products for 'inspiration'

MichaelG.

.

Also worth looking at this article about a miniature Spindle Moulder [thanks, Neil]; which is on the right sort of scale.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/03/2016 07:27:00

This is exactly the sort of working end I'm after but with the ability to tilt and rise and fall. For a table saw as it would this on its side. With two cams and worm screws for the tilting and riser.these are the bits that would have the power going through them as the drive shaft is also the pivot point. As the pivot point is actually the moving part not the pivot. But as it moves in an arc the centres remain the same. Hence the use of pullies to balance out the force or it would all be on one side causing very bad torque and inaccurate cuts.
6 March 2016 at 02:48 #228526
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
Sorry that should have read I have a small 300mm centre Unimat style lathe. Works great if it wasn't for the nutter using it.
6 March 2016 at 02:53 #228527
Izack Madd
Participant
@izackmadd89335
If anyone reads this silly question

As I can get hold of the right sort of pullies I think I want. But they have teeth. And so do the belts which are flat.

But apart from the reduced friction side would it be possible to run a toothed belt inside out. That is with the smooth side contacting the pulley?

That way I'd relive the issue of over friction and allow the belts to slip if needed. Or would they just slip completely without excessive tension?
6 March 2016 at 07:32 #228532
Sam Longley 1
Participant
@samlongley1
When I first read the post i assumed that the 44 was a miss print & you meant 440mm not 44. Hence my reply was not relevant. Apologies

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 06/03/2016 07:42:15
6 March 2016 at 07:42 #228534
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Sam look atthe likes of the Proxxon table saw, sort of thing ship modelers and dolls house makers use with small blades. This is why I also mentioned about pully size on the main spindle.

Izack for that small as saw I would forget about a rise and fall worked by a handwheel , simply have the table on a couple of slotted legs and adjust the height that way. Same with the table make that tilt as its far easier than the trunions needed to tilt the motor/ spindle assembly like on on full size saw. Sam may be aware of the old Kity Combi machine that work like this but that had a 200mm blade.

Edited By JasonB on 06/03/2016 07:44:07
6 March 2016 at 08:40 #228540
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Izack Madd on 06/03/2016 02:53:05:

But apart from the reduced friction side would it be possible to run a toothed belt inside out. That is with the smooth side contacting the pulley?

.

Before that specific question gets lost … Yes, the small toothed belts [MXL for example] seem to work fine inside out, as a flat belt. I use them on my little 'Jason' lathe [running on pulleys designed for flat belts].

MichaelG.
7 March 2016 at 14:59 #228790
KWIL
Participant
@kwil
The smaller the pulley diameter the greater the slip with a smooth flat belt, which is of course why toothed belts are used by Proxxon.
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