I spent my 50 year working life as a Toolmaker (Mould and Die) 22 of those years managing a company with 35 toolmakers. If I was in Italy or Germany I would be referred to as "Ing" and have some status for my skills. Here in the UK it is very much a blue collar/manual trade sneered at by many.

I've lived and worked in both Germany and Italy – where engineering certainly seems to be ranked and regarded equally alongside other "Professions".

When I worked Milan the Italian MD was a qualified mechanical engineer and was referred to by staff as "Ingegnere" (I think that's the right spelling) as a matter of respect…in the same way we might refer to a Doctor over here. Maybe if we regarded our Engineers as highly as the German and Italians do – more young people would be encouraged to study something useful rather than something less so…. (I don't think I'll qualify that any further)

Regards,

IanT

As a schoolboy I was threatened that I would finish up in the car factory if I didn’t work harder. The teachers had no idea what went on in a car factory and most of them had never done anything that wasn’t school. Although it was a grammar school it fortunately for me had inspirational metalwork and woodwork teachers. Predictably I finished up in the car factory serving the best apprenticeship in the area by far. I must say I enjoyed every minute of my 44 years there but now retired on a very reasonable pension so it all worked out well. I wonder if jobs still exist that make you want to go to work rather than stay in bed?

Mike

Moons ago as an apprentice we were told that because we got our hands dirty we were well down the social pecking order. Later on I worked as a gofer in an office in one of our major naval bases and the office workers who dictated policy and passed paper around all day were certainly looked upon much higher by management than the people who actually did the manual work. We seem to have our priorities completely wrong in this country.

+1, in spades.

Andrew

Agreed, absolutely.

I spent all my working life as an engineer and enjoyed it. Friends, acquaintances and those who knew me did not disrespect me because I was an engineer.

This is a discussion that takes place in the outside world, a place that I know about less and less.

JA

Edited By JA on 10/01/2020 11:13:58

In Britain the problem dates back to at least the nineteenth century, when those who had made their fortune in engineering or manufacturing were desperate to join the upper crust, and educated their sons in latin and greek so they would be socially acceptable. This attitude is still at large in our own times, as witness the politician Gove whose 'English Baccalaureate' has done more to to destroy creative education than anything else in the last couple of generations, though goodness knows the other politicians have tried.

The engineering professions have bleated all my life, and all my late father's, about lack of status but have never done anything serious about it, with the result that (to give but one example) the girl who came to wire in my cable TV installation is described as an engineer. I might add that I was delighted to see a female technician, and told her so.

I don't expect to see a change any time soon.

George B, MIET etc.

I thought they used super glue instead of chains these days?

Likewise being a Building Maintenance Engineer. They think you are the janitor and ask you to mop up the toilets. Meanwhile you are operating a multi-million dollar computerised heating and air-con system that is keeping them alive when it's 40-below zero outside, (Montana, USA, in winter.) while showing the surgeons how to turn the knob on the operating theatre wall thermostat to get their desired temperature.

" the girl who came to wire in my cable TV installation is described as an engineer. I might add that I was delighted to see a female technician "
You were correct the second time. We call them 'Techs'. Only Techs are allowed to do certain things so I have a Tech ID although I am an Engineer. However I prefer to call myself a Scientist outside work as I have a science degree and that gets a tad more respect because people think of the white coats and test tubes they see in films.

When I started work that employer had a Professional Engineer grading system for graduates and a separate E scale for HNC, HND and trades, and an M scale for managers. Dress was casual so if anyone came in in a suit it was assumed they were going to a promotion board, or an external job interview in the lunch break. When we recruited a chap with 3 years experience in the old GPO he came in wearing a suit and told us that their Professional grades were all required to be suited whether up a tower or down a manhole to maintain their status.
When I moved company we all wore suits in the deskbound jobs. Then we amalgamated with another company who did 'dress down Friday' and eventually one Friday shock horror I took off my tie and haven't worn it since. Now we are so casual some people wear shorts in the office in summer but to me that is a step too far.

"Please don't lets get started on this hoary old chestnut yet again" Your TV has an off switch. If you don't like the program you are not force to watch it.

British War Films of the 1940 – 1950s give a deeply inaccurate view of the social split of our armed forces. It's to do with actors and tropes. Public School types with cut-glass accents were cast as officers and gentlemen whilst junior ranks and NCO's were played by loveable character actors, often cheerful cockneys. For the purpose of entertaining the ignorant public it was made clear what the roles were. The real armed forces were much more normal – far more officers in WW2 went to Grammar School than Public School. The same is probably true of WW1.

Not just British Films of this period are misleading; almost any Hollywood Cowboy Film made at the time is nonsense, unless you believe that the bad guys always wore Black Hats. (And real cowboys wore Bowlers rather than Stetsons!)

Re, engineering status, take consolation that engineers are rather better paid than most jobs. I put a lot of snobbery down to jealousy. And of course anyone remotely sensitive about his social position is just asking for a good ragging! Many an engineer I've teased without revealing my own shameful past…

'In my book , an engineer is someone who has completed to least to university level'

Typical elitist remark. I left school at sixteen. I worked and still work in engineering to this day. I design and build machines that many industrial companies describe as impossible. I did not go to university. However every year I get an invite to Cambridge Kings College where I spend time with some of the brightest young minds in the country. Not to mention the heads of the physics and computer departments and various other professors.All are very interested in what I can do and what I have achieved in my life.

I always tell them that EVERYTHING they eat, drink , touch, watch,or use, from the clothes on their back to their transport and communications, houses and entertainment…….. has been designed by an engineer. The whole world as we know it has been shaped and modified by engineers.

But we get our hands dirty so we are not worthy of consideration in some circles. In Japan I would be a mega hero. But I won't get invited to tea with the queen in the U.K.