Myford ML10 metric leadscrew

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Myford ML10 metric leadscrew

Home Forums Help and Assistance! (Offered or Wanted) Myford ML10 metric leadscrew

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  • #457222
    Paul Smith 37
    Participant
      @paulsmith37

      My Myford ML10 metric leadscrew is a bit worn, so i wondered if anybody had (pardon the pun) a lead on where i can get another , or get one made?

      I found new metric half nuts, but finding a new metric leadscrew is another issue

      Many thanks Pauly

       

      Edited By Paul Smith 37 on 14/03/2020 19:24:47

      Edited By Paul Smith 37 on 14/03/2020 19:26:53

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      #33547
      Paul Smith 37
      Participant
        @paulsmith37
        #457245
        Paul Smith 37
        Participant
          @paulsmith37

          Whooa.look at this

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moVDZrYGnyc

           

          All i need some of this bar, now to locate some.

          Edited By Paul Smith 37 on 14/03/2020 21:44:50

          #457253
          Paul Smith 37
          Participant
            @paulsmith37

            So ive found these,Im not sure how to find out which one to buy?

            **LINK**

            #457262
            Paul Smith 37
            Participant
              @paulsmith37

              Ive measured the leadscrew which is about 15.87mm max width, which i take that to be a 16mm size,but i cant find a 3mm pitch, either 4 or 8.

              well thats frustrating..

              #457324
              not done it yet
              Participant
                @notdoneityet

                15.87mm, is, of course, exactly 5/8”🙂. ‘About’ may not be near enough but about 0.1mm is neither here nor there for the diameter of a leadscrew.

                #457336
                Michael Gilligan
                Participant
                  @michaelgilligan61133
                  Posted by not done it yet on 15/03/2020 10:25:09:

                  15.87mm, is, of course, exactly 5/8”🙂. […]

                  .

                  … which, incidentally, makes my request [posted this morning, here: **LINK**] all the more relevant.

                  https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=135379&p=2

                  MichaelG.

                  #457346
                  Bazyle
                  Participant
                    @bazyle

                    The 'normal' first recourse for this problem is to turn the leadscrew end for end and use the 'back' face that hasn't been worn much. You have to make new ends of course.

                    I'm not sure if people are appreciating the advantage for lathes moving from square thread to Acme/Trap with a sloping face. The half nuts can be made with deeper threads firstly to give space for crud but so that the nut engagement can be increased with wear (the grub screws mentioned on the other thread) and adjusted to reduce backlash. If the thread bottoms out on the leadscrew the nuts can be bored out a bit as they should be considered sacrificial. You need to do the adjustment sufficiently often to avoid wearing a ridge on the nuts.

                    So al in all you haven't got a problem, you just need the right approach.

                    #457355
                    not done it yet
                    Participant
                      @notdoneityet

                      I’m fairly sure the advent of ACME was to implement easier engagement for lead screws.

                      Square thread sideways engagement is only possible over the backlash distance, while a tapered thread will have so much more scope for a positive engagement. The other advantages are secondary. Plain feed screws are still stronger, mechanically, when made in a square format.

                      This thread pivots on what the OP means by ‘a bit worn’. Some use their lead screw to drive in the other direction (rather than moving the carriage from right towards the left). Most threads are not that long as to make the error particularly frightening, I would have thought?

                      #457381
                      Howard Lewis
                      Participant
                        @howardlewis46836

                        Looking at the other thread on ML10 Leadscrews, it sounds as if a Metric Leadscrew for a ML might be be REAL hybrid.

                        Possibly made from the same raw material as for an Imperial machine (Makes sense, or they would have to make the mating bearings/ couplings Metric as well, in a smaller volume )

                        So it could be 3 mm pitch ACME form Leadscrew made out of 5/8" bar!

                        Curiouser and curiouser?

                        A bit like my mini lathe, with a 1.5mm Leadscrew but 20 tpi Leadscrews on the Cross and Top Slides!  But the DROs can accommodate that  

                        Howard

                        Edited By Howard Lewis on 15/03/2020 15:15:04

                        #457402
                        Clive Foster
                        Participant
                          @clivefoster55965

                          Quite common to find metric pitch ACME thread feedscrews on imperial stock material. Makes life much easier for the machine tool maker.

                          For example the specification of the metric, 5 mm pitch, Bridgeport feed screws is :-

                          Thread Type single, left hand 5 mm pitch

                          Major Diameter 1.250" / 1.240"

                          Pitch Diameter 1.138" / 1.135"

                          Minor Diameter 1.040" / 1.030"

                          Thread Class Special

                          Pitch 0.1968" (5 mm)

                          Lead Error 0.001" / ft

                          Mr Bridgeport of course couldn't care less how hard this practice makes it to figure out if used, slightly worn, feedscrews and nuts are actually metric or imperial. Or for that matter new, unlabelled, ones. Standard inch (ish) long thread gauges really aren't up to indicating the 32 thou pitch error between 5 mm and 10 TPI.

                          Unless you know the cunning method for sorting coarse metric from coarse imperial threads.

                          Ultimately ACME is a thread form defined by formulae and so is not tied to any specific dimensions or style of dimension. You could do an ACME thread in cubits if you wanted, assuming you could find an official definition of what a cubit really is.

                          Unlike specific named threads such as M10, 3/8" whitworth et al which are both defined by formula and tied to a specific style of dimensions. Even then although whitworth form is an imperial definition its been metrificated for ISO-7 series pipe threads. Similarly BA is a metric thread restated in imperial dimensions with some minor modifications. This practice always seems to give funny numbers where you don't want then and difficulty figuring out tolerances.

                          Clive

                          #457416
                          Paul Smith 37
                          Participant
                            @paulsmith37

                            Ive put up some pictures on this thread **LINK**

                            #457418
                            Paul Smith 37
                            Participant
                              @paulsmith37

                              So the question is, does anybody know where i can get a new leadscrew made?Its way above my station, ive still got my L plates on!

                              .Id be ok making the threaded bar fit, but making the thread is another matter.Bearing in mind my lead screw is worn too.

                              cheers chaps !

                              #457430
                              Michael Gilligan
                              Participant
                                @michaelgilligan61133
                                Posted by not done it yet on 15/03/2020 12:47:45:

                                I’m fairly sure the advent of ACME was to implement easier engagement for lead screws.

                                […]

                                .

                                Good summary here: **LINK**

                                So Why Use Acme Threads…What is it All About?

                                They also have numbers, and printable thread gauges !

                                MichaelG.

                                #457433
                                Paul Smith 37
                                Participant
                                  @paulsmith37

                                  This is another good source of info

                                  **LINK**

                                  #457434
                                  Paul Smith 37
                                  Participant
                                    @paulsmith37

                                    Ok ive checked the ML10, it is capable of machining a 3mm pitch thread.Somehow if i could make the cutting tool,what steel would people recommend ?

                                    Im going to have a bash and make this myself with a dodgy leadscrew.This is going to be fun.

                                    #457454
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                      Posted by Paul Smith 37 on 15/03/2020 19:31:25:

                                      This is another good source of info

                                      **LINK**

                                      .

                                      The problem is, Paul … My link is to information about ACME thread-form, and yours is to the Metric Trapezoidal thread-form.

                                      But we still don't know which form Myford actually used on the ML10

                                      Can you make a couple of templates, to 29deg and 30deg, and photograph them against the unworn portion of your thread ?

                                      <pretty please> angel

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #457455
                                      Paul Smith 37
                                      Participant
                                        @paulsmith37

                                        I wonder if i can turn up some metal rod in the lathe , one at 29 deg and one at 30deg, take off the points at the correct depth and try them in the thread, now theres an idea.

                                        ive got the lathe in bits, ill rebuild it and get busy on it 

                                        Edited By Paul Smith 37 on 15/03/2020 20:29:45

                                        #457459
                                        Michael Gilligan
                                        Participant
                                          @michaelgilligan61133

                                          yes

                                          #457589
                                          Paul Smith 37
                                          Participant
                                            @paulsmith37

                                            Well ive set the compound slide to 14 and 15 degrees,trying to get it one 14.5 deg was nye on impossible with my eyes, thus 28 and 30deg and i think the 30 deg one fits better, thus pointing to an acme thread. I was difficult becuase even though i cleaned the leadscrew with brake cleaner, the fluid kept jumping across the gap,The 30mm pencil was solid in the thread whereas the 28 was a tad wobbly

                                            I spoke to halifax rack n screw today, and he said its defineately an acme thread too, and hes compiling a quote for a plain threaded bar i can finish.If the quote is reasonable does anybody else want one for a group buy?

                                            thanks Pauly.

                                            #457591
                                            Ex contributor
                                            Participant
                                              @mgnbuk

                                              TR16x3 threaded rod

                                              available here in 1 metre lengths. Need to contact them for prices.

                                              If Hx R+S are too pricy, you could try Kenward Precision & Gear in Huddersfield (01484 512355) – they have (or had when I last visited) a Jowett thread whirler, so should be able to make a lead screw.

                                              Nigel B.

                                              Edited By mgnbuk on 16/03/2020 16:12:31

                                              #457637
                                              Bazyle
                                              Participant
                                                @bazyle

                                                Do you really need a new screw? Unless you are milling in the lathe backlash doesn't matter. The only time you need a thread particularly accurate is if you are milling in the lathe for which you could set up a DTI, or for making new cross slide screws or other tool screws for which you can use the unworn backside of the existing screw cutting in reverse.
                                                A lathe can only make a new screw slightly shorter than its own leadscrew without some complications.
                                                If you are making a screw and the nut it doesn't matter whether they are Acme, Trapezoidal or muggins own brand as they can be made to match. If buying a nut all you had to do was ask the vendor what angle it was. If the vendor doesn't know do you really want to buy.
                                                If getting one made don't forget to tell them to use imperial stock or the super high quality nut might not fit.
                                                If you have access to another longer newer lathe you can true up the existing screw by shaving off the unworn sections – nothing says the peaks and valleys have to be the same width and it only matters when you have repeatedly done this exercise taking the metal down to about half a mm or too thin to do the shaving 'cos it bends away from the cutter.

                                                #457643
                                                Paul Smith 37
                                                Participant
                                                  @paulsmith37

                                                  My angle of attack was to refurbish the lathe, Bearing in mind the machine is circa 50 years old.

                                                  Im waiting for parts for other jobs so i thought id crack on and rebuild it.Its a nice machine and thought id go for it and give it a service.Its very usable and does stuff you wouldnt expect from a machine of its size.

                                                  Ive found some new leadscrew half nuts, and found the supplier for a DRO for the tailstock,which now works lovely rather than being really stiff to use.

                                                  Stuff thats worn is relatively easy to replace so i cracked on with it.

                                                  Im deeply disappointed with Mssrs Myford Ltd. I asked for the specs of the leadscrew or can they sell me one? Their reply was less than ideal, no you cant have the spec, and no we cant make you one.Cosmic………..

                                                  So remind me to buy a new one,HAH it wont be a new …..Myford ……for sure.I will replace the leadscrew it as i want to use it to its full potential with all its features.i bought it with retirement on the horizon and i needed a garage hobby after work is done so wanted it shipshape.

                                                  Ive worked with machines and vehicles all my career, and stuff that i find worn, i replace.OCD i guess.

                                                  #532727
                                                  John Beresford
                                                  Participant
                                                    @johnberesford27902

                                                    Paul, did you get anywhere with sourcing any leadscrew material? I also have a similar problem with a worn but still useable leadscrew on my speed 10. Ive been looking for tr16 x 3 LH screw material but having no luck. I appreciate the suspicion the tread may well be metric acme but I was going to give trapezoidal a shot.

                                                    #532763
                                                    Paul Smith 37
                                                    Participant
                                                      @paulsmith37

                                                      HI John. Alas i sold the Myford as a low priced Boxford AUD came up. I sold it to a fella who owned an engineering company, so he was going to get one of the staff to make it. regards Pauly

                                                      Edited By Paul Smith 37 on 09/03/2021 12:38:09

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