Internal threading question

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Internal threading question

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  • #473438
    pcb1962
    Participant
      @pcb1962

      I've never cut an internal thread, I have taps up to M14, now I need an M16x2 thread 35mm deep (open ended). If I buy this 10mm internal threading tool will I be able to cut an M16 thread, or is that going to be too tight? I'm guessing it will be.

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      #27381
      pcb1962
      Participant
        @pcb1962
        #473446
        Pete Rimmer
        Participant
          @peterimmer30576

          The tool can do it if you can. You need the thread diameter less double depth for comfort 16-2-2=12mm so you have 2+mm clearance up the hole (actual minor diameter is 13.84mm). The only thing to check is that they do a 2mm insert for that holder.

          You could buy quite a few taps for the cost of it mind.

          Edited By Pete Rimmer on 21/05/2020 06:24:59

          #473472
          not done it yet
          Participant
            @notdoneityet

            If you look at the bottom of that link, there is a tab to be the first to ask a question about the tool. You could use that for a definitive answer from the suppliers?

            #473477
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Glanze give a minimum hole size of 13mm for that holder though only for 26mm length, with just 1mm between height and OD you should be OK.

              #473481
              pgk pgk
              Participant
                @pgkpgk17461

                I'll first admit that the only internal thread I've cut was a 1" thread as practice following Toms Techniques Youtube vids when I started playing and using a hand ground cutter. A smaller internal hole with a tight tool and I think i'd cut it away from the chuck with inverted tool to make it easier to check clearances and place the tool before each run.

                pgk

                #473699
                old mart
                Participant
                  @oldmart

                  The price of the insert is the highest I have seen. Check out APT.

                  #473716
                  John Baron
                  Participant
                    @johnbaron31275
                    Posted by pgk pgk on 21/05/2020 09:05:54:

                    I'll first admit that the only internal thread I've cut was a 1" thread as practice following Toms Techniques Youtube vids when I started playing and using a hand ground cutter. A smaller internal hole with a tight tool and I think i'd cut it away from the chuck with inverted tool to make it easier to check clearances and place the tool before each run.

                    pgk

                    Won't that cut a left hand thread ?

                    To cut a right hand thread the tool needs to be the right way up and the lathe spindle running in reverse with the feed away from the chuck. I have to cut a thread into a back plate for a new chuck.

                    #473719
                    Grindstone Cowboy
                    Participant
                      @grindstonecowboy
                      Posted by John Baron on 21/05/2020 20:00:31:

                      To cut a right hand thread the tool needs to be the right way up and the lathe spindle running in reverse with the feed away from the chuck. I have to cut a thread into a back plate for a new chuck.

                      Probably misunderstood what you mean, but I don't see how the tool can cut if it's the right way up and the spindle is in reverse?

                      Rob

                      #473725
                      JasonB
                      Moderator
                        @jasonb

                        You would need a L/H internal holder and insert which puts the form on the opposite side of the triangle to cut outwards with tool right way up.

                        Upside down and machine in the right spindle direction but feed reversed should work with conventional tool if you want to cut from chuck end  

                        This is how you can do external threads by using an internal tool on the far side of the job and run in reverse, the business end is on the correct side of the tool

                         

                        Edited By JasonB on 21/05/2020 20:34:22

                        #473727
                        John Reese
                        Participant
                          @johnreese12848

                          Check the size of insert used and confirm it is capable of the 2mm pitch.

                          #473735
                          Martin Connelly
                          Participant
                            @martinconnelly55370

                            Rob this link to the Sandvik site has a diagram on page 25 of the pdf catalogue showing what Jason is saying about left hand tools and inserts for right hand internal threads being cut with the tool moving away from the head stock.

                            Sandvik threading insert guide.

                            Martin C

                            #473737
                            Anonymous

                              Last time I needed an internal M16 thread to fit a screwcut external thread I just drilled and tapped, although I did already have the taps.

                              Andrew

                              #473741
                              Tony Pratt 1
                              Participant
                                @tonypratt1

                                From experience definitely give APT a look

                                Tony

                                #473780
                                pcb1962
                                Participant
                                  @pcb1962

                                  Thank you all for your responses, the link that Jason posted shows that although the diameter would be ok I'm going to have trouble with the 35mm depth and I don't fancy my chances of going in from both ends and meeting up in the middle. Thanks also for the APT recommendations, their inserts are certainly more reasonably priced than the Glanze, but I have a question – how is it that Glanze sell only a single insert for their internal threading tool, yet APT have a different insert for every thread pitch?

                                  Thanks, Peter

                                  #473791
                                  pgk pgk
                                  Participant
                                    @pgkpgk17461
                                    Root and crest widths different for each size thread = ideal tool or each thread.
                                    Tom;s Techniques I referred to earlier has a good vid on hand ground thread tools and explains helix angles too
                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Edited By pgk pgk on 22/05/2020 07:01:47

                                    Edited By pgk pgk on 22/05/2020 07:04:24

                                    #473794
                                    JasonB
                                    Moderator
                                      @jasonb
                                      Posted by pcb1962 on 22/05/2020 02:46:15:

                                      Thank you all for your responses, the link that Jason posted shows that although the diameter would be ok I'm going to have trouble with the 35mm depth and I don't fancy my chances of going in from both ends and meeting up in the middle. Thanks also for the APT recommendations, their inserts are certainly more reasonably priced than the Glanze, but I have a question – how is it that Glanze sell only a single insert for their internal threading tool, yet APT have a different insert for every thread pitch?

                                      Thanks, Peter

                                      As I said there is only a 1mm increase in tool diameter from the 9mm x 26mm end to the 10mm shank so you will have clearance into the hole but as it is a fairly coarse thread you may come a croper. Can't remember if my tool is 10 or 12 mm will see if I have a chance to measure it later.

                                      The Glanze insert is a "partial form" eg it has 60 deg angle but will not cut the exact crest and valley form, it will cut a range of pitches which you would need to check. The other are known a s"full form" and have the pitch in the description and will cut correct crests and valleys for that pitch only. So you can gave one all rounder.

                                      #473879
                                      Grindstone Cowboy
                                      Participant
                                        @grindstonecowboy

                                        Thanks for the link, Martin. Confusion due to my interpretation of "right way up" frown

                                        Rob

                                        #473892
                                        Martin Connelly
                                        Participant
                                          @martinconnelly55370

                                          Rob, sometime words just don't work and that's when the old saying kicks in, a picture is worth a thousand words.

                                          Martin C

                                          #474057
                                          old mart
                                          Participant
                                            @oldmart

                                            For non critical work, you could use a metric insert to produce a unified thread and vise versa. They are both 60 degree form and the other differences are relatively minor. You could also get away with Whitworth and BSP threads.

                                            #474113
                                            JasonB
                                            Moderator
                                              @jasonb

                                              I did have a measure of my 10mm one but it has the 10mm shank all the way and I only have a partial form 0.5-1.5 insert so could not really give an exact answer but it did fit into a M16 nut with plenty of room to spare.

                                              #474179
                                              pcb1962
                                              Participant
                                                @pcb1962

                                                Thanks Jason, you've been extremely helpful, but I think this time I will go with a tap, what's "plenty of room" to you is I feel still going to be very tight for me, thanks again.

                                                #474203
                                                pgk pgk
                                                Participant
                                                  @pgkpgk17461
                                                  Posted by pcb1962 on 23/05/2020 12:00:34:

                                                  Thanks Jason, you've been extremely helpful, but I think this time I will go with a tap, what's "plenty of room" to you is I feel still going to be very tight for me, thanks again.

                                                  I might well do the same thing in practice but another of Joe Pie's vids demonstrates cutting a partial depth internal thread outboards i.e lathe in reverse (if you dont have a screwed on chuck) whch has the benefit here of proving the clearance on each tool entry. Also he makes the point that the first pass can be a larger depth of cut than subsequently since the actual cutting surface at that time is smallest. It also allows you to use the smallest stick-out of the tool since you don't have to worry about when to disengage the feed.

                                                  For total cowardice there's nowt wrong with a handground HSS tool and manual cranking of the lathe. It's tedious turning the chuck with two keys but do-able..

                                                  pgk

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