Setting up a new workshop

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Setting up a new workshop

This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 15 July 2010 at 13:02 by Terryd.

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11 July 2010 at 08:13 #53280
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi there,

I recently had a garage fire which destroyed my workshop area contained within. the room was devastated (as was I), the fire destroying all of my hand and power tools and machines. As well as work in hand and some finished models and work stored within. My extensive materials collection has very little left to salvage. It was incredible to see the effect that fire and water has on what were impeccable machines, Fortunately my plans, designs and extensive library were stored elsewhere.

This raises several points which we all need to address, and I certainly will in future and I hope that most if not all of you take such precautions already.

1. Have initial fire fighting equipment handy. It’s not expensive in the scheme of things. a fire extinguisher of suitable size and fire blanket will be my first acquisitions when the insurance is settled.

2. Ensure your insurance is adequate and that the contents cover will cover your stuff. Make sure it is high enough, I got to 20 Grand and have stopped counting. My tool collection goes back over 45 years and was extensive, reflecting a wide range of interests.

3. Make an inventory, a detailed one, the big things you remember, it is the seldom used but essential pieces that one forgets and they are often the most expensive. Use a digital camera and make still and video pictures in addition to a written list, computerised and backed up.

4. Keep archive copies but use an online photo storage facility (scanned lists saved as jpegs can also be stored as can videos) as a cheap backup archive, better still use 2 or 3 in case one fails.

5. Remember it is replacement costs which are important not purchase price.

Now I come to the important bit. Like a Phoenix, I intend to rise from the ashes and start again with my hobby but I have little experience with modern machinery. I intend to buy a new lathe and milling machine in the initial stages. Probably up to £8 to £900 for the milling machine and up to perhaps £1500 for the lathe (insurance willing). I do not want used machinery, I’ve had plenty of experience with that. and I am consulting the collective knowledge of the community to help me choose with advice and suggestions. All advice will be very gratefully accepted and considered.

I will of course be re equipping all of my tooling but need to prioritise and again advice on essentials would be welcome. ( I mostly model steam engines and make workshop tooling (all previous stuff lost).

Such advice as, would metric fine and coarse range taps and dies be sufficient to cover my needs or are the BA and ME I have used previously really essential? I would like to go totally metric if possible – I’m happy with the system but because of the length of time I’ve been acquiring equipment, I had much imperial stuff. If the rest of the world is happy with metric, why not?

I’ll stick up an album of my pictures when I feel able, just as a stark warning to all to avoid complacency, I’m a bit numb at the moment.

I might write up the process of rebuilding and decision making as a possible guide, offering advice based on my experiences if others think that they may at one time profit from them. What do you think David – would such articles have a place in the mags? Email me.

best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 11/07/2010 08:19:19
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11 July 2010 at 08:13 #11677
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
discusion of the most appropriate machines
11 July 2010 at 12:12 #53286
Lawrie Alush-Jaggs
Participant
@lawriealush-jaggs50843
Very sad to hear of the demise of your workshop Terry.
I have not endured the type of catastrophe that you have suffered but have had the lot stolen on several occasions (no insurance)
Personally I am quite happy with a belt drive Taiwanese mill drill though if I had my druthers I would go for one with a dovetail column. Just very occasionally the round colum can cause you problems as the inability to raise and lower accurately limits your Z axis work hieght. As to a lathe, I bought a Chinese 9 x 20 just over a year ago and could not be more happy with it. Again if druthers came into it I would have to say that spending a little more would have gotten me on with a gearbox for changing spindle speeds. If you have a look around you will notice that many of the machines in this size are now coming with variable speed drives so that that coupled to a decent gearbox for the lead screw would pretty well answer my requirements.
Both machines are capable of taking some fairly heavy cuts and producing accurate work. With what you want to spend on them I think you will come out with some decent machinery.
As to metric versus everything else, I too wanted a metric only workshop but it seems it is just not possible. Although I don’t make models, I am still at the stage of getting all of the acccessory tooling made, you still require some UNF for working with screw in drill chucks and whitworth if you want to work on engine blocks. Almost all of my threading tooling is metric but I still have to add in other bits occasionally. You will also find that although all of the world is happy with Metric, one of our satellites, the USA is not. They still consume more of the planet than everybody else so you may find that although the leadscrew and dials on your milling machine are metric, the draw bolt and the bolts for the handles will probably be UNF.
As you are conversant and apparently comfortable with metric, I would go that way and just add in any small bits you require as you need them.

Lawrie
11 July 2010 at 12:48 #53287
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Terry,

I can’t express enough how much I feel for you over this disaster. It is the thing of nightmares and what most of us dread and hope will never happen. Losing replaceable kit is bad enough but to lose ones models has to be soul destroying. I admire your resilience and determination to get back.

Your advice on being prepared is sound. Like you sometime back I began an inventory and was amazed just what is there – much totally irreplaceable if for nothing else simply time left on this planet.

Insurance does need to be checked carefully – I have mine with Aviva (formerly Norwich Union) which specifies my lathe and mill as well as tooling. Many of the ‘deals’ on household insurance do not offer more than about £5000 for outside buildings.

I can’t offer any advice on modern machine tools as my Myford lathe and Linley mill have been with me for many years. However having read so many varied opinions on the imported kit there seems to be good scope for obtaining something that will do the job required for the expenditure you intend. For myself, I would go down the totally metric route where possible – purchasing, where Lawrie says, outside of this only when needs must.

Your thoughts on writing this awful experience up – start to finish – would be something we could all benefit from so I hope David will take you up on it and you will see fit to be able to do so as time goes on.

All the very best in your adversity Terry – I wish you well in your recovery.

Regards – Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 11/07/2010 12:51:18
11 July 2010 at 13:17 #53290
john swift 1
Participant
@johnswift1
Hi Terry ,
                    I am very sad to hear of your catastrophic loss
I know how I would be , if I lost my electronic spares and test equipment
                   Your fire is a warning to all of us.
The hidden dangers in our homes and workshops can catch us out at any time
I have just checked the halon fire extinguisher by my front door is ok

The best impulse buy I made was some 20 years ago when TANDY first sold smoke alarms in the Liverpool store.
At 3 AM one morning the alarm it woke my dad , and as a result the four of us survived.
as luck would have it , he had bought a fire blanket and extinguisher with

the extinguishers for work.

Having taken up this hobby since chrismas , your more experienced than me
so I cannot help you with your choice of new equipment.
without some one else in the house ,
I take riskes i would not take at work ,working on TV power supplies for instance.

The chioce of going all metric or not will depend on you being able to manage on the limited range of threads .
If you only need the taps and dies for new diy tools and models , metric ones will do .
all metric will be less expensive to buy. some of the older taps and dies seem to be very expensive ,
if you are like me I would expect to end up with a mixture of the two.

with no lives lost and a roof still over your head , I hope some thing positive can come out of your disaster

                              Best Regards

                                                          John
11 July 2010 at 16:27 #53292
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Thank you all for your comments, I appreciate the commiserations and the advice.

I hope there is more to come (advice that is). I have put up a few pictures in an album which may show the extent of the devastation. Apparently the fire was probably caused by a faulty fluorescent light unit. This was combined with the fact that the flat roof cover was GRP over chipboard (1960’s design) and the heat of the day. A near neighbour has also said the they had a power surge which destroyed light bulbs earlier in the day which is quite suspicious. In our village there was a power surge a few years ago which wiped out many appliances in peoples homes.

Thanks for your welcome comments on insurance Ramon, it had me running to my policy again and fortunately there is no mention of a limit on unattached buildings and content. But then again I have what originally appeared to be an expensive policy with Natwest Home Insurance. Thank goodness I didn’t go for a cheaper alternative, phew!

I must admit that it is the determination to carry on and rebuild which is supporting me at the moment and keeping me positive, it would be very easy to give up and become a disillusioned couch potato. I couldn’t stand that, I may then even be forced to watch the English football team, a fate worse than death perhaps.

Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 11/07/2010 16:28:49
11 July 2010 at 23:28 #53311
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Guys,

I managed to salvage a few minor pieces from the ashes now that they have finally cooled. I just thought that I’d give you a fright to start you thinking .

Here is a before and after picture. I had actually completed the final finishing of the grinding rest just last week. Just think of what might happen to your stuff in the same circumstances and take precautions.

Terry

Grinding rest just before final fettling and finishing in late June :-

Grinding rest after fire and efforts of firefighters :-

Makes you think?

Edited By Terryd on 11/07/2010 23:29:21
12 July 2010 at 00:28 #53313
Flying Fifer
Participant
@flyingfifer
Hi Terry,

My sincere commisserations on your disaster & deepest thanks from probably most of us on your warning. By the look of your pics though you`ve also been very lucky in that the blaze didn`t spread to your or your neighbour`s house.

Tomorrow I`m going to remove all the inflammable bottles & tins of various concoctions 7 propane cylinders which are in my workshop & put them in the steel cupboard I got years ago for that very purpose & never quite got round to doing. Then I`ll get son in law to check out the wiring as well ! So you have at least made me do something I should have done years ago.

As regards metrication, be aware that you just might be letting yourself in for a shock. It looks like you do a bit of car restoration? No problem on older british cars because 1/4 BSF is 1/4 BSF etc ie you know what you want & you can still get them, all be it a bit harder now than it used to be. 10mm Taps & dies Sir, certainly here they are that will be £x. Go home & use them & you might be lucky that the thread fits the item you need it for. Problem is that 10mm threads could be 10X1mm pitch or x1.25mm pitch or even 1.5mm pitch. New 10mmx1mm brake pipe ends even need an 11mm spanner when theoriginal nuts have 10mm heads ! Hows that for simplification.

How do I know this ? Well No 1 son is restoring a Nissan 300 Zx sorts car, so you can guess who has been called in to supply the engineering requirments. So far it has cost over £200 for the assortment of taps & dies which he has needed not including the large set from a certain dealer which “will cover all your requirements Sir” As wotsisname says “My A***”. Only useful thing in the set is the Thread gauge which does get a lot of use these days.

On the other hand I do like metric drills.

I`m also sure that you will be able to salvage some of your bits & pieces & put them back into use. Is that grinding rest really beyond repair ??

Best Regards Alan
12 July 2010 at 05:50 #53316
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi Alan,

Thanks for your commiserations, I’m glad that you’ve decided to take action to reduce the risks which we all take for granted most of the time. Like your self I intended to take action ‘sometime’ but it never seemed to be that sometime, there was always something more interesting to do.

I believe that I will be able to save the grinding rest and some of my equipment but the models are beyond repair as they were in the hottest part of the fire,which the firefighters reckoned must have been over 800 deg C.

Thanks for your warning over Metric threading, and yes car restoration was a hobby, two Triumph Stags died in the conflagration and my Spartan kit car lost a fibreglass wing which will have to be made from scratch. But I think that part of my hobby may be over now, there’s not enough years left to do all I want to.

Regards

Terry
12 July 2010 at 16:47 #53337
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi All,

Just a note regarding my experiences with insurance since my fire. Many of the cut price insurance policies restrict the value of contents in detached buildings. This is usually around £5000 but can be lower. That sounds a lot, but when you start an inventory it is very easy to surpass that figure considering all of the tools and equipment that we have in a workshop.

This restriction is of course usually put in the small print and is not loudly publicised. Fortunately I have quite an expensive household insurance which covers costs fully even in detached buildings such as my garage/workshop. It may be worthwhile checking yours if you’re not sure.

Best regards

Terry
14 July 2010 at 22:04 #53400
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Hi Terry,

Sorry to read of your troubles, I’m impressed by the way you have picked youreself up again.

Here’s something that might help a bit, if you haven’t skipped everything.

If you have steel items with surface rust, like that grinding rest, stick it in the middle of a vat of fairly concentrated washing soda, surround it with a long electrode (I use cheap old hacksaw blades bent round). Connect the object you want to retrieve to the negative terminal of a battery charger and the other electrode to positive.

If you can vary the rate of charge and voltage, this helps – 6V for a longer time seems to work better. Make sure all is well ventilated (ideally do it outdoors) as a nasty mix of hydrogen and oxygen will be evolved!

You will be amazed at the results – the bubbles can make loose rust flake off but the hydrogen evolved by the process reduces the flakey orange FE3 rust to FE2 iron oxide that is stable, hard and dimensionally similar to the original steel.

One point though – the finished result is super clean and will rerust rapidly if not washed, dried and oiled very quickly.

Ok the results will have a mottled grey appearance, but if function is more important than appearance, you may well be able to rescue that rest and more, and a bit of emery cloth can put some polish back too.

Neil.

P.S. A friend tells me you can get similar results by dumping rusty items in a plastic bucket full of cheap cola (dilute mixture of carbonic and phosphoric acid)
15 July 2010 at 12:13 #53413
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
Low carbon steels OK in the electrolitic rust removal , but higher carbon steels suffer from hydrogen embritalment, paticulary springs and thin sections.Ian S C
15 July 2010 at 13:02 #53417
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Thanks for the advice guys,

I will certainly try some of those methods for rust removal Neil, I’ve nothing to lose really.

Terry
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