What milling machine?

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

Ok guys and gals,

I'm going to cause contraversy by asking a question.

I have an X2 milling machine. Now that I have the myford I want to change my milling machine. But which one?

at reasonable budget but primarily Quality and precision with high speed.

What do you think?

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Wabeco do high speed versions of their mills which are good quality but come at a price.

J

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

Milling machines take up a lot of space! I used to have a Rishton – based on the vertical head that Myford used to fit to their 254 lathes – and it had a Myford spindle nose, which was a great help in transferring tooling. You'd only get second-hand ones now, though. As Jason says, Wabeco are probably your best bet if you want precision anf high speed.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

John S always swore by his POS mill. Not a make I am familiar with and they don't seem to appear on google. Must be a case of "so good they don't need to advertise".

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Correction, swore AT it.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Rebekah – It might be wise to narrow it down a bit in spec. Do you have an idea of materials to be cut? max work size? type of milling ops planned? Available room? Available budget?

A few suggestions might affect responses significantly.

Generally I would recommend getting the mill you can afford with the biggest and most rigid castings and construction you can find, followed by the biggest work volume available. My preference is for ex industrial US, British and European made machines, in that order. There are some very good very affordable Taiwanese mills about, but there is also some absolute rubbish for sale and unless you know what you are looking for in the details you could get fooled. One more note: Personally I would stay away from Myford, their lathes and mills are vastly overpriced for what they are in my opinion. I'll probably get cut down drawn and quartered for saying so though.

Your mileage may vary, just my $0.02 worth.

JD

 

 

Edited By Jeff Dayman on 27/05/2013 21:45:31

[jwbParticipant @jwb]

 

I've had a Wabeco F1210 for about four years. It wasn't cheap, but as far as quality is concerned, it's streets ahead of the dreadful Chinese thing (it didn't deserve the name 'milling machine' which I had before that.

The Wabeco is not without its faults, though. My main complaint would be that it clearly was not designed as a manual machine – it's just the CNC machine with the CNC bits left off, so there are no travel stops and no provision for them. The mounting holes for the CNC bits are there though. The ghastly plastic handles were soon replaced with decent cast iron ones from WDS. How Wabeco can send out the machines with handles like that is beyond me.

The machine is quiet and speed control is good. The rigidity of the machine is satisfactory for light machining only. On the whole, I'd recommend it but with reservations.

John

Edited By jwb on 27/05/2013 22:21:02

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Picking up on Jeff's point …

If you are interested in precision, and don't need to do heavy cutting, have a look at the BCA [preferably the Mk 3].

It's a real gem of a machine. They don't build 'em like that any more !!

[or … if anyone does, they will be astronomically expensive]

MichaelG.

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

The material i want to work with is Aluminium.

Budget? Good question.

I just want something solid that doesn't reqiure constant attention to ensure it's good.

Jeff, to be honest i wouldn't trade the Myford Lathe and wish i'd bought one sooner.

I really wish i could do CNC, i'm trying to convert my X2 but to be fair, I'm pretty pants at it so i need to start from scratch again.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by rebekah anderson on 28/05/2013 00:01:22:I really wish i could do CNC, i'm trying to convert my X2 but to be fair, I'm pretty pants at it so i need to start from scratch again.

A thread on my (S)X2 conversion is here if it's any help.

Russell.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Hi Rebekah,
There are a number of questions,
What am I intending to build
Will I ever plan to build anything bigger
CNC et all; is a black art to me, do not need it or want it.
Tooling, rotary table, collets, you name it
but please enjoy.
Beky, if I may call you that please post a profile even if it is only to say where you are on this planet,

Kindest from an old engineer
Bob

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

Well Bob,

I have added some info about my awesome self on my profile. lol

the questions you pose are certainly valid and here is the feedback.

the X2 is big enough, I just spend more time adjusting and setting the the machine, plus I need to sort the electronics as they are cutting out regularly.

tooling, I have loads, boring head, slitting saw, milling head with collets, 80, 100 and 150mm rotaty table, 3 jaw chuck, indexing plates.

the black art of CNC is important to me as I can design pretty much anything, I just can't do it on computer. This being key, it's a massive obstacle. but I know that once I get over that hurdle I new door would open for me. the parts I need for my builds need to be visually pleasing not just functional.

this forum is super help full and more questions will come your way. but so far I have already made progress.

I shall take my milling machine apart and get it set up and add the CNC setup as I rebuild.

one typical example for the machining is track plates for my digger build, 110 of the same thing so repeatability is key. The other thing is the cutting out of curved parts or profiled parts.

lots and lots of things to do. My website shows more http://www.rc-truck-design.co.uk

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Hi Rebekah

My own experience is that when I got a CNC milling machine (after a manual one) the quality and accuracy of my work really increased. Even for simple one offs purely using manual G code it's easier – think of it as a manual machine with power feed and DRO on each axis and minimal backlash if you want at its simplest. You can then learn simple CAM and progress from there.

See if you can find a Denford (Triac, Novamill, Micromill ) or Boxford (190, 260 vmc) already converted to work with Mach3 unless you know a bit of electronics yourself (I don't ). These machines were sold to schools and colleges in the 80s and 90s, well built and pretty accurate – far better built than a x2 type machine. Would be ideal for small parts in Aluminium.

Andy

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

Hmmm, sounds interesting.

Are you saying you designed the part the programmed the G-code manually, line by line?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Becky,

Don't worry too much about the programming, these days the software is very good and getting better release by release.

Basically if you can draw it and point to what you want to machine, you can cut it.

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

I'm great with design on paper, just the process to get it in to the computer remains black magic lol

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Well the way I use my CNC milling machine for simple stuff (the sort of task you would do on a manual machine like squaring off a block) is I just type in the g code line by line. For more complex (relatively speaking) or repetetive tasks I do use cambam which is an easy(ish) to use CAM tool with some basic CAD functionality.

Even for the simple jobs I find it an advantage over a manual machine as there is less chance of making a mistake, each axis has power feed and a very accurate DRO. If you are doing multiple parts then its a major advantage and time saver and really comes into its own.

The other advantage is as others have already said there isn't much choice available if you want a high quality, smallish manual milling machine at a decent price, either new or second hand.

Disadvantages are that if you want to do a very simple one off task you have to boot up your PC first. Also if you aren't IT literate then there is a learning curve to even get started.

Purely my own opinions here and there are plenty more experienced and knowledgeable engineers on here than me.

Andy

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

As part of my job I have to make brush rings for DC motors, usually fork truck motors as some of these can cost £3,000 each so well worth repairing.

What normally happens is for various reasons they catch fire and burn the insulation ring that holds the brush boxes so new ring needs machining out of Tufnol and the boxes re-riviting back on.

This is a typical ring.

This is the simulation of it from Cut2D which is a cheap ~ £100 program.

At one time I would have band sawn a blank out of a sheet of Tufnol then using the lathe, mill and rotary table would have knifed and forked one out, Realistically between one and two hours to do one.

Now days I draw it up, that takes between 10 to 15 minutes tops as you only need to draw the detail in one quadrant and mirror it twice to get a complete drawing. Programming is done in Cut2D and I use one tool, the biggest that will fit into the smallest slot. Tool changes take longer than extended cutting.

Literally nail a sheet of Tufnol to the bed of the router as it has a sacrificial MDF bed and press go.

That ring is about 7" diameter in 8mm Tufnol and will take about 18 minutes 44 seconds according to the program, so in under 30 minutes I have a one off that would have taken me 2 hours in the past.

Another 20 minutes I have a spare if needed.

Well gone are the days where you had to run a thousand off to make it pay

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Andrew Evans on 28/05/2013 23:46:52:
Disadvantages are that if you want to do a very simple one off task you have to boot up your PC first.

55 seconds to boot into LinuxCNC or 70 seconds to boot into WindowsXP/Mach3 and that's on an old second hand machine. If that's too long leave your PC in standby.

Don't connect the PC to the internet. If it works it never needs security updates so no checking for updates, no virus scanner needed as you won't get a virus, so very little overhead.

Russell.

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

Luckily i have no internet in the hovel i call my workshop.

Well after all that I've decided to redo my conversion starting with changing the gears to pulley.

i have my friend making the pulleys for me.

I'm using hossemachine's version.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

If you can find a Denford Novamill I couldn't recommend it highly enough as a small cnc mill. It knocks spots off all the X2s and X1s of this world.

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

Well at over £1000,- on fleebay and a new price that could solve the greek debt crissis, i like it but i have to say, " I'm out" on that one

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

If your x2 is already CNC look for one that has lost its electronics and just transfer your present drivers over. I paid ?600for tjethe mill aand spent just over 100 on the electronics.

[rebekah andersonParticipant @rebekahanderson95322]

Nope not CNC'd yet.

got more or less everything. Although i knackered the Z axis ball screw

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