water supply

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

After winding up a lot of people about electricity, I'll have a try with water. Yet again people are suffering flooding, this time in the east of the country. A few weeks ago, representatives of the water industry were bleating about how water is a scarce commodity. I'm sure those unfortunate to be up to their knees in the stuff (or worse) would not agree. We have plenty of water in this country. The only reason our supply is scarce is because we don't keep enough of it when we get too much. Yet again there is the lack of foreward planning and and a failure to invest in the required infrastucture.

I will now don my tin helmet and retire to my nuclear shelter.

Edited By Anthony Knights on 16/06/2019 07:12:47

Edited By Anthony Knights on 16/06/2019 07:14:06

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

So you would be happy if the authorities invest some of their money to compulsory purchase your house and flood your village to make another reservoir  At least it would stop them errecting a wind turbine at the end of your garden!

Edited By JasonB on 16/06/2019 07:33:08

[RMAParticipant @rma]

The problem with all our utilities…..private ownership! It is a disgrace that the essential services in our country are in private hands and mainly foreign owned! Profit is the name of the game…..not spending money! Government seems hell bent on letting these companies get on with it because it makes them unaccountable, whilst they put their energy and our money into useless projects such as HS2!

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Government now theres a name for having a job and being able to screw it up and still keep your job !

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Anthony has highlighted an issue with our privately owned utilities, there is a need to invest in a lot more infrastructure, more reservoirs etc. but because their allegiance is to shareholders they pay dividends rather than invest back into the business, yes they do make some investment but not nearly enough bearing in mind the “drought” problems that continually threaten. Our electricity industry is in the same position, there is nowhere near enough investment going forward. Our society is so focussed on making a quick buck, we disregard the future. One solution to our water shortages in the South East corner of the country would be a transfer system to bring water from areas such as the Lake District or Scotland where there is always a surplus, this could be achieved using a series of canals and aquaducts, it was good enough for the Romans and other civilisations. A system like this could benefit all regions of the country.

Dave W

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

I recall that when Keilder Water was built there was much muttering about t being a white elephant. Now, water is being piped South as requested.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I see that none of us waste water ! Do you run the tap when you clean your teeth, run the tap to get hot water, then add some cold, how long do you shower for – most people use more water in the shower than they would use in a moderately deep bath (Do you share the bathwater ??) I agree that water storage is a problem and that we seem to let flood water drift away instead of storing it, but like energy, we are a wasteful society, but don't like to admit it.

Have a look at your water bill, we consume on average 60 CuM/year for 2 retired adults. What do others use ?

BobH

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

We are surrounded by lots of water, ships can make fresh water from salt water, big mistake is not investing in de salienation plants , as I understand it as you cannot destroy water there is the same amount now as there has always been, thats my opinion right or wrong 🚾

Mick 🇬🇧

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Posted by Mick Henshall on 16/06/2019 09:13:34:

We are surrounded by lots of water, ships can make fresh water from salt water, big mistake is not investing in de salienation plants , as I understand it as you cannot destroy water there is the same amount now as there has always been, thats my opinion right or wrong 🚾

Mick 🇬🇧

You are right. Big ships (and little ones) make fresh water from the sea using reverse osmosis but it is energy hungry. It is not usual to drink the stuff and is often called "technical water" and is mainly used for sanitary purposes as well as for cooking. We have large scale de-salination plants here in Mallorca but they are only used in high tourist season and in emergencies.

You are partially right about not being able to destroy water but you can split it into oxygen and hydrogen using electrolysis so we have used up tiny amount. Again energy hungry.

I think one of the main problems is that more and more water is the growing populations and changes to the natural distribution patterns of rain and snowfall.

Tim

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

And, to really turn the screw, you will find that if you try to collect rainwater to use it more 'constructively', you

will be charged for it !

[Graham ButcherParticipant @grahambutcher80356]

Why do we use drinking water to flush our toilets?

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by Mick Henshall on 16/06/2019 09:13:34:

We are surrounded by lots of water, ships can make fresh water from salt water, big mistake is not investing in de salienation plants , as I understand it as you cannot destroy water there is the same amount now as there has always been, thats my opinion right or wrong 🚾

Mick 🇬🇧

Here in South East Spain we have desalinated water…..not much choice thanks to politicians scrapping the aquaduct from the north to here (after much of it had been constructed)! It is drinkable but apparently leaves a lot of Boron in it and if you have an irrigation system, the plants don't like it (so what does it do to us?)

Regarding wasting water, if you have a meter you tend not to waste it! In Spain water is very expensive. In England not so bad compared to here but it depends which company supplies you. The Government (here I go again) hasn't made it possible to switch suppliers like the other utilities! In the UK there is no excuse, plenty of water falls from the sky, but they let most of it run away. So in the UK or Spain, the politicians will ensure it's complicated and expensive!

I've not heard of having to pay for collecting water. I have several connected water butts in England and they work very well.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Here in East Anglia, though we have had some rain in the last week, we have basically had a drought for an extended period of 2 – 3 years. When we moved here, we were warned about flooding in the vicinity, water was regularly running down the village main street, steams were full, paths muddy. None of that now. It would be all very well piping drinking water in from the NW where it's very wet, but there's no way you could import enough to soak the soil. Basically the climate is changing, it's getting hotter and drier, and extremes, of rain as well as temperature, are becoming more common. But the average rainfall here has declined a lot.

[vintage engineerParticipant @vintageengineer]

On the south coast we extract water from boreholes and pump treated sewage into the sea! In London they extract water from the Thames and pump treated sewage back into the Thames to be reused. I still cannot understand why Southern Water cannot do this?

Also we get electricity from France!

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

One of the benefits of rural Wales is abundant rain (usually in excess!). Most folk around here have private boreholes as do I and our own reed-bed sewage system. No fees for water until the pressure vessel or pump goes down. It still needs some care to avoid pulling too much out and draining the system faster than it can flow in.

Our system of government promotes 'short-termism' – finagling finances for popularty and vanity projects rarely thinking ahead more than 1-2 terms of office. I agree that basic resources should be public but then the issue is the battle between unions and goverment – rarely to do with genuine worker rights as much as another layer of career politicians or foreign interference.

Democracy doesn't work with socialism and capitalism is always selfish but the nonsense of selling the family silver to pay for beaurocracy needs to stop. I can understand buying in foreign technology but selling them the whole water-works is plain daft.

Lake Vyrnwy is 12 miles from me. A wondeul example of victorian building to supply Liverpool with water. It's a shame they didn't have reason to design it for generators in winter.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Luckily I live at the source end of the Thames and so get first use, London are pretty much last to use the Thames water

Mike

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Mike Poole on 16/06/2019 10:43:12:

Luckily I live at the source end of the Thames and so get first use, London are pretty much last to use the Thames water

Mike

Mike,

You get the concentrated farm waste run-off. Folk in London get several cycles of contraceptive tablet excretion to adapt to…

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by Mike Poole on 16/06/2019 10:43:12:

Luckily I live at the source end of the Thames and so get first use, London are pretty much last to use the Thames water

Mike

It must be safe if it's passed through six people without killing them

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Desalinated water is far from palatable, I remember in my youth when we travelled to and from the Far East the ships used to take on desalinated water from Port Suez and Aden, it tasted foul. Nowadays in Malta, where we have friends, there is a small amount of water extracted from boreholes and the greater proportion of mains water comes from a huge desalination plant, the local Maltese rarely drink mains they have imported bottled water which they get delivered to their houses much like our milkmen used to do house deliveries. For me desalinated water is not an option but the way our country is going we will soon have to invest in it.

Dave W

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

I used to live near Hyde, gtr Manchester and journey around Derbyshire…..there were loads of smallish reservoirs …many were sold of as building plots……

where did the money go I wonder,

the main problems with utility companies is the scabs in suits that run it "for our benefit" NOT….

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

To Barrie Lever , if you read the " terms and conditions" closely I think you will find what falls from the sky belongs to the water company, and how you use it determines whether you will be charged for it, or not.

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

J Hancock, do you know for certain of a particular set of T&Cs that states what you say? If you could provide a company name or the name of a government body or whatever, I am fairly sure in a few seconds I could find their T&Cs online. I would be very interested to look up the actual wording of the original document.

This info, found in a few seconds too via the magic of Google, from a company in the industry, suggests that this "they own the rainwater" idea is an urban myth imported from the USA, where some states do have that sort of regulation:

https://rainharvesting.co.uk/collecting-rainwater-illegal-uk-everything-need-know/

https://rainharvesting.co.uk/collecting-rainwater-illegal-uk-everything-need-know/

"Is it legal to collect and use rainwater in the UK? The answer isn’t necessarily obvious if we look at precedents from elsewhere in the world. In the American state of Colorado, for instance, it is legal to sell water butts, to own them, but not to use them for the purpose for which they are intended! The water rights and laws of the arid Western US states go back 150 years to when it was a case of first come, first served for everything from land to gold digging claims to water rights. So a homeowner is deemed not to own the rainwater that falls on their property and it must not be harvested. The rainwater belongs to the owners of nearby water rights in the expectation that the rainwater will eventually make its way onto their groundwater supplies. It may seem ludicrous to us living in the damp climes of the UK but that system has a grounded basis in history as the article in the Washington Post explains very well. Rumours abound of individuals being prosecuted and even sent to prison for harvesting rainwater off their own roofs.

What Is The Legal Situation In The UK?

Scare stories like these from abroad may have planted seeds of doubt in the minds of UK citizens regarding the legality or otherwise of rainwater harvesting here in Britain. In fact, it is perfectly legal and actually encouraged by most water companies, especially in the drier south eastern counties where rainfall is significantly less than along the west coast.

However, whilst there is nothing to prevent householders from collecting rainwater, there are standards and regulations that apply, especially if a cross-connection is made to the mains water supply. There are also regulations governing the supply of water for consumption, as well as general health and safety rules as one would expect."

 

 

 

 

Edited By Bikepete on 16/06/2019 13:17:06

Edited By Bikepete on 16/06/2019 13:17:45

Edited By Bikepete on 16/06/2019 13:28:20

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by Samsaranda on 16/06/2019 11:50:28:

Desalinated water is far from palatable, I remember in my youth when we travelled to and from the Far East the ships used to take on desalinated water from Port Suez and Aden, it tasted foul. Nowadays in Malta, where we have friends, there is a small amount of water extracted from boreholes and the greater proportion of mains water comes from a huge desalination plant, the local Maltese rarely drink mains they have imported bottled water which they get delivered to their houses much like our milkmen used to do house deliveries. For me desalinated water is not an option but the way our country is going we will soon have to invest in it.

Dave W

Sorry, have to disagree. Desalinated water in Spain is very palatable. Unfortunately it's not the answer to the diminishing resource. One side effect as noticed in the Med, the salt extracted goes back into the sea and the fish can't take it, so they move on. Solving one problem usually creates another somewhere down the line.

Malta doesn't have any rivers and very little rain from what I can remember, so natural water is at a premium there.

No one in power seems to have the guts to recognise the common denominator to most of our problems……the world is over populated and demand for water; food; housing; schooling; hospitals etc is far too high. But it's not PC to say that is it?

[Author]

Posts