Warco WM280V Metric or Imperial

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Hello, I'm about order a milling and lathe from Warco and while checking the specs on their online shop noticed the WM280 lathe with imperial leadscrew is discounted £445 over the metric, any particular reason for that?

I'm used to both metric and imperial (but would prefer metric) but I was anyway planning to install DROs, so my thoughts were get it imperial and with what I save I can get the DRO but will have to be quick about it as there's a note saying "Almost sold out!"

When it comes to thread cutting, is the WM280 able to cut both metric and imperial threads?

Chris

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Advice for a beginner

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Only Warco could explain why they're discounting the Imperial version. My guess would be that they overstocked on Imperial and are shifting them to make space. Possibly they didn't sell as many imperial lathes as expected, perhaps because new customers aren't so keen on them.

It would be Interesting to know if other vendors are seeing a trend. I would guess in 2017 that most newcomers to the hobby would be more comfortable with metric than Imperial, but who knows?

Yes the 280 can do metric and imperial threads. The ranges aren't identical but I don't think you would miss much.

Dave

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Thanks Dave, so the 280 will come with change gears covering both metric and imperial and I won't need to order any, right?  will check with them, at least to comfirm it is identical to the metric version ie its got VFD no DC motor drive.

Any recommendations on what tooling should I get for starters

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As the imperial 280 uses a 63T changewheel to cut metric threads they will be very close with a minimal error as it has an 8tpi leadscrew. Then again a metric lathe will do the opposite and give imperial threads with a slight error so choose which system you are more likely to cut threads in.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Most likely if I need to turn a thread it will be imperial but it should be one offs. In the meantime been in contact with warco and although they didn't explain why the discount on the imperial lathe they confirmed its the same version like the metric with VFD etc. They also confirmed they do test run the machines and check them before dispatch particularly those for export; which will be my case. So probably I'll place the order as soon as I get confirmation from my shipper.

Any ideas regarding what tools should I get along to get started?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

1-13mm Keyless chuck and arbor

Live tailstock ctr

Quick change tool post

Tailstock die holder

Set of soft jaws while that chuck is the current model.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Jason provides a very good list though I haven't bothered with a quick change tool post, yet! A keyless chuck is well worth the extra money.

Stating the obvious just in case, a set of 8 or 10mm HSS or a set of 10mm indexable cutting tools. These sets normally have all that's needed for turning, facing, threading, boring and parting off. I bought both HSS and carbide and can't decide which I prefer! HSS tools need a grinder to keep them sharp, carbide is low maintenance but likes to be worked hard.

On the subject of parting off, a rear tool-post is available for the 280. Without doubt this is a 'very good thing'.

Perhaps not so obvious, a DTI and magnetic stand; also a micrometer and/or digital caliper.

I use a clamp knurler a lot, but I like making tools rather than models. If you're going to be tapping threads a spring tap guide and a small tap wrench help enormously to keep the thread straight. Some centre drills of course.

Old toothbrushes are OK for clearing swarf. A magnetic tool holder to stick spanners etc on the back of the lathe is handy, and I use a 99p magnifying glass a lot. The lathe is easier to work if the chuck area is well lit: some people fit extra lamps.

The lathe arrives in a plywood box held together with nails and steel bands. Bits of steel band are handy for making shims and for checking that tool height is correct. It's good to have some thicker shimming handy, for example an 8mm tool will need about 4mm of shim.

I bought some way oil and headstock oil with the lathe. The way oil is is sticky (anti-rust as well as lubrication); I'm not sure it's that much better than an ordinary oil. It's recommended to change the gearbox oils of a new lather after a year.

For the purpose of installing both a lathe and milling machine, and planning to reorganise later I bought an engine crane and lifting straps. They can be hired, or you may have several strong mates who know all about rollers etc. By my pensioner standards the 280 is very heavy. The centre of gravity near the headstock means you have to be careful to keep the lathe balanced. However, once balanced, I had no trouble lifting mine onto its stand with a crane and daughter to assist. The daughter made the job much easier!

Cheers,

Dave

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Cheers for that Jason and Dave. Glad I asked as there were a bunch of things I didn’t think of. When it comes to lifting (having no one to help me apart from my wife and 9 month daughter) I’ll use a chain block. I’m building the bench myself with caster wheels so I can position the bench under the lathe rather than the otherway round. Should still work; while on the subject what’s the recommended height for the bench? I’m 5ft9″, was thinking of a bench 32″ high,does it sound right? The Warco stand seems to be a bit short…
Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'm about the same height and have my stand stood on a couple of layers of plywood so to underside of tray thats 30.5" , you could go a bit higher to save stooping but remember its more height to lift teh chucks upto.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Chris, I have the WM250V-F on the Warco stands; & as you say they are a bit short… & very cheapo sheet metal i.m.o. none the less they do support the weight.. Considering my arse is nearer the floor than yours ( 5' 6" ) the height seems to suit me at the moment. I can measure the height next time I'm in the garage let you know .

George.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Ok so 31" or thereabouts should do. Will sketch something and get going with it…

Edited By ChrisB on 20/03/2017 23:02:24

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Height: a) make it higher than whatever you first think of because it is easier to stand on duckboards than rebuild the bench. b) Try and thread a needle or read a micrometer if you have one held in front of you. Freeze. The position you are holding the object is the natural distance your current eyesight quality dictates you want to be to see things clearly. Arrange the centre height to be an inch or two below this at most. If you have it lower you will be forever leaning down without realising it to get a better look and get a bad back.

Between the chain block and the lathe what are you using? You don't want the chain round the lathe. Get a short nylon strap and if you wrap it round the bed on many lathes it must go inside the leadscrew – look carefully at the geometry but if possible run it down through the bed, round the foot and back up so it isn't near the leadscrew.
It will now be top heavy lifting like this.
Run a rope through the spindle and tie it round the strap pulling it back tight into the spindle (but the spindle takes NO weight). This makes the tipping action re-reference to the spindle line well above the c of g so it doesn't tip. Run another rope from the tailstock end to the hook to pull up that end using the saddle and tailstock to balance it all. LOCK the saddle and tailstock!

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Sound advice, I have straps and shackles laying (remnants of my offroading days) was going to use them.

I'm tempted to start building the bench straight away, but perhaps it would be a better idea waiting for the lathe and milling to arrive first? As I'm also getting the WM18 mill, should it be set at the same height?

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Plan for the bench, doing them separate for ease to move them around but when in place they will be side by side as in the photo, that's why I left some space apart, it's for the milling table travel.

Will use 4"x2" and 2"x2" box section. Mounted on caster wheels and

adjustable machine mounts:**LINK**

Not sure what to use for the bench top, split between a 1/4" steel plate or 1" plywood. Probably will go with plywood as the bench will be heavier than the machine! Then will either put some drawers or cabinet doors in the empty spaces.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Bench. It may be easier to use thick ply sheet instead of old fashioned timber legs like a kitchen cabinet. Do the sums and the cross section is the same but you get 100 times the front to back stiffness (can't think of a good word for that). Ditto thinner sheet along the back. Also easier to mount runners for shelves and drawers.
Tiddly adjustable feet will wobble. 3 of the feet will sit ok and the last one can be packed for a proper firm base. Casters yuk. It will slide and a lathe has no business being on wheels.

If you ever do need a movable bench still don't have the castors fixed and the feet jackable. Make the feet fixed and the wheels move down on the rare occasions they are needed. (hint. make one end so you can pop your trolley jack under to save half cost of wheels).

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Actually my intention was to use 4×2 steel hollow section, not timber, maybe it was not clear from my post. Caster wheels 80mm dia rated at 200kg each but when the bench is in position I’ll take the weight off them by adjusting the pivoting machine mounts I linked in my previous post. Those are good for 500kg each, and as they are of the pivoting type any misalignment will be counteracted. I’m not much of a wood worker…prefer welding!
I do get your point regarding not placing the bench on casters tho.

Edited By ChrisB on 21/03/2017 18:14:58

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Chris, the Z-axis handwheel on the WM18 mill is on the right hand side at the top of the column. Could be uncomfortable to reach depending on height and depth of the bench. Possibly site mill at right and lathe at left to give more access.

Jonn

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

ChrisB;

My larger (British) 1124 lathe is in inches, but I do everything in metric.

Threading is so-so; long threads into longish nuts causes binding. The quick change gearbox has markings for metric on it. The extra change wheels for metric are not "exact" but close. (they have never been off since I purchased the lathe – no need for inch threading in my workshop)

I do use 0-25mm dial indicators stuck on with magnets; this was a temporary solution about 15 years ago; have not put a DRO on it yet.

I do wish it was a metric lathe, through and through, though.

My smaller lathe is fully metric, and it is a pleasure. Again, no DRO, but do have a dial indicator to easily see what the carriage travel is.

I think the problem with DROs and the display behind is that, you are not looking at the machining operation, but a screen elsewhere. It's not actually a problem to do that, but you do need to feel confident in what you are doing. I have a mill with a DRO on it, and often I'll mill by feel/sound, while looking at the DRO.

Just some thoughts to ponder, if you wish.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

The picture could be misleading due to the perspective it's been taken at Jonn. In reality the distance from the lathe cover to the centre line or the mill is approx 980mm. I don't have the exact dimensions of the mill but from the description the total width including handles is 1118mm, Longitudinal traverse is 565mm, so when the table is all the way to the left it the distance from the mill centre line to the edge of the handwheel should be approx 840mm, so I was thinking I'll be fine.

Probably it would be a better idea if I waited till I have the lathe and mill delivered and then build the bench accordingly, makes better sense.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Chris, I think John was suggesting that with the mill on the far right you could step around to the end of the bench to raise the head rather than reach up and across.

This would really depend on where any walls are located as obviously would be no good if there is a wall at right hand end of bench and also could limit what sticks out teh back of the lathe spindle if a wall on the left.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Yep, now I see your point…I was going to set them up that way because the wall is on the right, so I reasoned the lathe could stay there in the corner with the tailstock next to the wall and leave the headstock and spindle clear. I could space the milling further to the left I wanted, I just placed them that way so there will be less clutter. In any case I will wait for the machines to arrive first, that way I can figure out the best way to place them without guesstimating.

This morning took the plunge and ordered the machines from warco Also wanted to get a quick change tool post and a rotary table but unfortunately they are out of stock…so I'll have to wait for that, unless there are other options, I'm ordering most of the tooling from arceuro and I noticed they have different QCTP but I doubt they'll be a direct fit to the wm280.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Yes, that's what I was getting at. My mill is much smaller and it can be quite an effort reaching up and over if the head needs moving a lot. I can get to the side of mine if the space isn't full of useful things (read junk storage)! My bench is 900mm tall and that puts the lathe cross-slide handwheel at elbow height for me ( I'm 6' 1" )The top of my mill is 700mm above the bench top and it is a baby compared to your new one. You could always make the bit for the mill a bit lower.

Picture out of interest and you will find the flat space between lathe and mill collect a vast assortment of tools, swarf, bits of bar etc. (I cleaned up before taking the photo). Drawers are very useful when you make the bench.

Happy machining with your new toys…

John

Edited By Journeyman on 22/03/2017 11:10:55

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

…I can measure the height next time I'm in the garage let you know…

​Just measured mine; 990 mm from floor to centre of X slide hand wheel, about 25mm below my elbow height but I aint goin' to mess about with it after all this time, & as I shrink with age & my arse gets closer to the floor it'll work out fine

George.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Hi John, looking at your photo I can see where your coming from, your mill is probably a WM14 (can't clearly identify) and the hand wheel of the vertical traverse is on top of the column, while on the WM18 the hand wheel is on the side.

Can't see any junk on your bench, I'd say it's very neat and tidy!

Good one George!

[Author]

Posts