Vertex

[Manny lambertParticipant @mannylambert86533]

Hi I am looking for reviews on vertex brand of tooling. Such as dividing heads, rotary tables, boring heads and tooling in general. I cannot find enough data about far eastern tools.

Thanks for any information

Manny

[Manny lambertParticipant @mannylambert86533]

reviews

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

+ 1 on this request.

I want a boring head and wonder if Vertex is worth the extra over Soba and the unbranded ones. As a ballpark a Vertex head is @£100 with an arbor yet Soba only £70 or so and unbranded with a set of bars maybe £50.

Comments very welcome! Is Vertex worth the extra?

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Vertex is made in Taiwan and I believe is a brand handled entirely by Rotagrip. I do know that he has used aerospace companies to manufacture one part from discussions with him so suspect all are. He was having a problem with it but nothing to do with the manufacture, more the way it worked and what it was used on.

Not sure where Sorba are made.

John

–

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by davidsuffolk on 26/09/2015 08:56:24:

+ 1 on this request.

I want a boring head and wonder if Vertex is worth the extra over Soba and the unbranded ones. As a ballpark a Vertex head is @£100 with an arbor yet Soba only £70 or so and unbranded with a set of bars maybe £50.

Comments very welcome! Is Vertex worth the extra?

In a word, yes.

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

Manny and Dave

I don't really have the skill to go into the niceties to the last 0.0001" of what is good tooling and what is not.

But I bought a Vertex Posiloc collet system and I have absolutely no complaints about it in it's nice wooden box other than to say Posiloc is an awkward design to use compared with ER. The Vertex stuff seems well made and adequate for what I do which is make small parts for vintage cars for my own use.

On the strength of my experience with the collets, I bought a 4" Vertex milling vice. Again, absolutely no complaints. Nice finish, smooth operation, good grip etcetera. Could be a bit neater round the area of the scale on the revolving base. Can't detect any lift in the jaw that the experts bang on about being a bad fault, but there may be a thou or so I'm too insensitive to detect. Again, does what I need perfectly well. Worth the money.

I have no commercial interest in Vertex.

Hope this helps.

Martyn

[egaParticipant @ega]

Manny lambert:

I know of no formal reviews but can tell you that I am very pleased with my Vertex tapping chuck.

[Brian GroomeParticipant @briangroome43093]

While I don't have vast experience of Vertex tools I do have a 4" milling vice and a surface table. They are well made and the vice has had about 12 months use without any problems, and is accurate enough for my requirements. I would (and probably will) buy Vertex tools again. Vertex are a Taiwanese company, not chinese for what it's worth. In my fairly limited experience where tools are concerned you generally get what you pay for. Brian

[Michael BriggsParticipant @michaelbriggs82422]

Hello Manny,

I have quite a bit of Vertex kit, dividing head, rotary table, collet set, small vices and a live centre. In my opinion the quality is better than Soba. I bought a Soba Dickson copy some time ago and was very disappointed with it.

Regards,

Michael

[Manny lambertParticipant @mannylambert86533]

Hi every one, I want to thank all for responding to my question regarding Vertex. I am only into model engineering and when looking for good advice into tools ,tooling and machinery, I have been surprised that a lot of people praising old British, American, German, Swiss tools as being the best??? My experience tells a different story, I have looked at older tools/ machines from Europe and have found that attention to detail is lacking in a lot of cases. I understand that metallurgy seems to be at the heart of some of the problems??

I do not have any vertex tooling but I will now take a serious look at purchasing vertex products in the future, as I find a lot of old tools being well overpriced despite not being in mint condition!!

I suppose that we all want a good deal which to me means excellent quality at a reasonable price.

Thanks for the advice.

Manny

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

I would use a Vertex dividing head but the boring head can be a cheap one. It is only a single point tool holder.

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

I have a Vertex dividing head and rotary table they are both very satisfactory. Colin

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

We are frequently told on this site and others that UK, European and US tooling is the best and that Chinese stuff is junk. I have often thought that this is a gross over simplification of a very confusing scenario. I have seen English and German tat, Chinese tat, heaven forbid even US tat. I was prompted to contribute to this thread after reading the current MEW (no 233), which contains articles about two pieces of UK machinery. The first was a small guillotine, which was supplied with some poorly made parts, and the purchaser seems to be getting the run around instead of after sales service. The second concerns a (whisper it) Myford mill, apparently the Myford contribution to this Taiwan sourced machine was to give it a coat of paint, to their usual, apparently high standards. Yet they managed to apply a nice thick coat of paint to some adjusting screws, they may have been gib screws, I don't remember. Now as a mere simpleton, that falls into the lack of attention to detail bracket, allied to a significant lack of competence. This from a company frequently held up as a paragon of UK manufacturing!!

Back on thread, everything I have bought with a Vertex sticker has been AT LEAST good quality, maybe not the best, but good and very functional. The items are a rotary table, boring head, a couple of vices and some blank end arbors

cheers

Bill

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Reading the same article as Bill above I note that the "extra paint" seems solely to have occured because the Original customer of the Mk2 version referred to had wished it to be in Myford green as opposed to the then standard blue/grey.

Even I can remember they were gib screws, so what if there was some paint on them and indeed as this machine had passed through the hands of others, can you "prove" Myford (Nottingham) had done that particular job?

Again if the gibs were indeed loose, just shows how much the original customer cared about the machine.

All I can say is that having been around the Nottingham Works on various occasions over the years I think that the then Myford standards were more than up to the mark. Low cost far eastern manufacturing did for them in the end.

Rant over.

Vertex products are good and nicely finished, I do not know whether any are merely badged.

Sorba are made in India.

 

Edited By KWIL on 26/09/2015 12:25:57

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Vertex are in Taiwan, but a lot of their stuff comes out of mainland China, often the same factories as other imported kit. Vertex are good at QC and will work with the good factories, so their stuff may sometimes is better than the run of the mill.

SOBA are the 'big boys' in India, generally good but QC tends to be more hit and miss than in China as there's less of a tendency to stick with the same factory for the same product. Some SOBA stuff is great, some isn't. There are some exceptions in India, notably Zither whose chucks are very good for the price.

The Myford VM mills are from Taiwan and made to a high spec, but yes it seems they aren't perfect. I bet even Tom Senior shipped a lemon now and again

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

I have a milling vice, boring head and two keyless drill chucks from Vertex. The quality is definitely a significant step up from the "entry level" tooling. It is more expensive, but worth it in my opinion.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have a Myford branded Vertex 6" Rotary Table [with four slots] which is fine.

It's not as 'sweet' as the integral table on the BCA, or the 6" [non-geared] Taylor Hobson, but entirely adequate, and good value for money.

MichaelG.

.

Note: I have, however, read somewhere that Vertex Rotary Tables have been 'simplified' in recent years.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Vertex is made in Taiwan and I believe is a brand handled entirely by Rotagrip.

For the record Chronos & RDG sell vertex as well, rumour has it they may be seeking additional disties…

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/09/2015 15:30:52

[JonParticipant @jon]

Havent managed to break an 8" Vertex rotary table in 16 years. For the diy user over 12 months that would be around 3 days use with me. Just needs a strip and clean once a year.
Only downside is the backlash which apparently you can adjust out.

Bill theres no saying the British and German tat wasnt made in china. We haven't made anything for at least 20 yrs if we did it wouldn't be £100 it would be in the realms of £1800.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Sorry KWIL, to have induced you to rant. However in my book, painting over any screws, bolts, nuts is an indication of poor standards and or incompetence. Painting over gib screws displays the same only more so, as gib screws, by definition have to be adjusted at some point, as against assembly screws which may only be used once (on assembly) in the life of a piece of equipment. The painting at the request of the previous owner rather than being part of Myfords normal procedure is irrelevant, if Myfords did it they are responsible. To my eye, almost nothing looks more amaturish than painted fasteners.

I understand that Myfords, for a long time, were the only game in town, in the UK at least, I understand that they have a vast range of accessories, I understand that some owners love their Myford as if it was the offspring of their loins. They are however just another piece of cast iron, which if dropped in the ocean will sink, rather than the alternative.

The whole point of my original post is that nothing is black or white. Everything, especially in model/hobby engineering, is somewhere on a spectrum of grey, in terms of manufacturing quality, some are predominantly at one end, some are at the other.

Vertex seem to be predominantly at the "good" end.

So far only manufacturing quality has been discussed, we haven't even started on Design Quality!!!

cheers

Bill

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Bill, cheers,

Yes Vertex are at the good end. Where do we start with design then?

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Kwil, one design feature I fail to understand is found on on most small 3" & 4" low cost vertical/horizontal rotary tables, it is the positioning of the rotary operating handle at the top corner of the table when used in vertical mode.

This position prevents me using that type on a milling machine with a boxed spindle, the housing will either foul the handle or place the operator in danger by close proximity to a rotating tool.

Moving to a Vertex and some other larger tables provides operating handles where they can be used safely.

Emgee

Edited By Emgee on 27/09/2015 11:01:38

Edited By Emgee on 27/09/2015 11:03:14

[Manny lambertParticipant @mannylambert86533]

Hi and thanks to every one who is contributing to this thread. Quote; there is nothing new under the sun. From my own research it seems that most designs today are just copies of past ideas especially in Engineering. Most machine tool manufacturer copy and no new ideas seem to appear?? Surely in the 21st century we could design the perfect tools by first asking how we expect these new machine tools to perform?

I expect that we all have our own ideas in mind on how we rate design and capability of machine tools.

Question; why has no one built in a rotary table directly into the main table of a milling machine at 0 degrees the rotary and table slots are all in line with the x-axis?

Question; Milling machines, counter balancing the knee, cross slide and table on the z-axis? This is not difficult to design and engineer.

These are the sort of questions I ask? answer; costs,costs!!!

This throw away society doesnt generate good new ideas, all it does do is how can we make it cheaper??

Another answer I get its too expensive to build in the UK, ie Labour costs, wages and so on??

It is my humble opinion we could build anything in this country and be competitive with the rest of the world! Where there is a will there is always a way.

All responses welcome.

Thanks every one

Manny

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Question; why has no one built in a rotary table directly into the main table of a milling machine at 0 degrees the rotary and table slots are all in line with the x-axis

You may want to take a look at Jig borers such as the BCA which basically do that. The other reason they may not have done it is the amount of over hang teh head would need if you were rotating say a 48" long bridgeport table through 360deg, though the likes of Maho have got round that one

Question; why has no one built in a rotary table directly into the main table of a milling machine at 0 degrees the rotary and table slots are all in line with the x-axis

Would you set it to be balanced with an empty table, or one with a 6" vice at one end and 8" rotary table at the other plus a hefty casting. Are they really that hard to turn? certainly not with power feed on them.

Edited By JasonB on 27/09/2015 13:29:50

[Manny lambertParticipant @mannylambert86533]

Hi JasonB, I dont mean rotating the whole table. I have seen the BCA jig borer. What I mean is to cut the rotary table directly into the main table?

We buy a machine vice with a rotating base, so why not incorporate the rotating base into the table you could then place your vice on it and or use it for dividing? Does this make sense?

My ideal milling machine would perform as a horizontal, vertical miller and as a jig borer.

I am sure that if every one put their heads together we could design the ideal milling machine. I believe its the same for lathes.

How to design machine tools must take into account tried and tested methods starting back in the 1700,s and up to the current times.

In my opinion we are going backwards as far as engineering is concerned and in many other areas of life.

I could easily design a milling machine using current data that would out perform any far eastern one and I expect their are many model engineers out there that could do a far better job than me.

Thanks for the reply

Manny

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