Sulphuric acid

[Dave CParticipant @davec87625]

[Dave CParticipant @davec87625]

Evening guys.

I have come up against a problem. Several years back I purchased a large bottle of sulphuric acid ( Stupidly ) as I had intended to attempt some boiler work and other silver soldering jobs.

I now after several years of tiptoeing around it feel that I must make some attempt to get rid of it for my own safety.

The bottle has had barely any removed as I have only done a few small soldering jobs at home.

Can anybody suggest where I could safely get rid of it please. I dont think the local tip would be too happy to have it. Otherwise if anybody out there in the manchester area requires some then it is yours to have. Would the local secondary school take it ? I obviously have no COSHH sheets to go with it. I originally bought the bottle from Blackgates.

Any help or advise would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

Dave

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Dave

Have you checked with your local tip? It is my understanding that they are equipped, and have a responsibility, to dispose of hazardous chemicals.

An alternative might be to contact a local garage or car tyre/ battery supplier.

Cheers

Norman

 

Edited By NJH on 22/08/2012 00:05:27

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Hi Dave,

I do a bit of anodising every now and again. It would probably be a lot purer than the stuff I'm currently (no pun intended) using, which was tipped out of some duff car batteries I got for nothing from a local tyre/battery place. Any idea of the strength?

I'm in Sale, if you want to send me a PM.

Otherwise:

Your local tip will take car batteries, so should be able to accept it, though the operatives may not realise that it is chemically the same as battery acid.

If you want to neutralise it and tip it down the drain, find a big non-metallic container (like a wheelie bin), half fill it with water, add the acid (always add acid to water, not vice versa) and then add washing soda crystals until it stops fizzing, and then the same amount of crystals again, just to be on the safe side. This will result in a solution of sodium sulphate (with maybe some sodium bisulphate present.). Sodium sulphate is harmless, but don't drink it, because it was once used as a laxative known as Glauber's Salts.

Andy

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

You could dilute it (1) and neutralise it (2).

(1) Add acid to cold water in a large tub, very slowly, stirring continuously. If it starts to get too hot, leave it for an hour or two to cool down. Wear eye protection and old clothes. Suggest you let it down in about 9-10 times its volume of water ready for step (2).

(2) Cheapest alternative for this would probably be a bag of builder's lime. It's calcium oxide, so it shouldn't froth much when added. Keep adding it – carefully – until the liquid is no longer acid (doesn't fizz when you put a bit of bicarb in it). The resulting sludge will be calcium sulphate, perfectly innocuous and probably good for the garden (but don't tell anyone I suggested it, it's probably against some daft EU law despite the fact that there are whole hills made of the stuff.) The builder's lime is mildly caustic when wet, so wear gloves, but nothing too serious, builders use it all the time.

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 22/08/2012 00:31:32

[CHRIS WOODS 1Participant @chriswoods1]

How large is 'large' ?

Just take it to your nearest model eng. club, I'm sure they would be pleased to have it.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Andy

Thank you – you have made my day !!

I usually peruse this forum whilst eating breakfast and I was following your useful advice to Dave. Then I came to the bit :-

"Sodium sulphate is harmless, but don't drink it, because it was once used as a laxative known as Glauber's Salts."

I choked on my cornflakes!

Cheers

Norman

[JonParticipant @jon]

Could be 33% thats about as strong as you can get from chemical places. Had 10 gallon of it then thinned down to 19% for anodising in 4ft fish tank which sorta broke.

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Sorry about your fishtank, Jon. I hope it wasn't too hard to clear up the resulting mess and corrosion. You had the easier task, Norman, wiping the cereal-based pebbledash off the table, computer and Mrs Norman (if any).

Thanks for the PM, Dave. I'll be in touch tonight.

Andy

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

It would be criminal waste to take it for disposal when so many model engineers could use it for its intended purpose.

Edited By Bazyle on 22/08/2012 15:23:43

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I may have a use for some.

Dr Crippen

[Dave CParticipant @davec87625]

Sorry Dr Crippen your a bit late.

Acid has been sorted and will be off to its new home on friday.

Many thanks as usual for the amusement and assistance given by all !

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

To test the concentration you can try dipping a dead cat head first into the solution, grasping it firmly by the tail and lowering slowly to avoid splashing. PPE must be worn at all times and only attempt this in a well ventilated area away from any possible ignitian sources. (one presumes death by natural causes(if you dont have a dead cat any reasonably sized mamal will do)). If it is close to the normal upper limit of 40% then upon removal from said solution said cat should be visually distressed. This assumes that said kitty was not in a state of dire distress as rigor set in! If on the other hand the conc has been diluted one might expect to see mogge re-enter the light with an otherwise unchanged complection. Hope this helps.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Oh I wanted it for my mother in law.

Damn.

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Neil

Your post made me laugh – but you had the wrong murderer; the acid bath man was John George Haig, hanged for serial murder. He was AFAIK actually brought up in the same village as my father, thought there was quite a few years between them and my father didn't know him except by repute. He also attended the same school my father and I did. IIRC, Crippen (was alledged to have) buried his wife under the floor of his house; there was I think a small residual doubt whether he actually murdered her.

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 24/08/2012 23:23:58

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

serious head on for a momemt – it has been proven beyond any doubt that Crippen most certainly wasnt the murdurer – wrongly convicted.

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

Quote from Fizzy's "dead cats are better than litmus" post:: "If it is close to the normal upper limit of 40%……"

Well, the well-protected, 3/4 full gallon bottle which Dave C very kindly gave me the other night says 98%, which is about as concentrated as sulphuric acid comes.

It will last me more than my lifetime, so if anyone in the Manchester area wants any, send me a PM, and you are welcome to a cupful; bring your own cup

Johnny was a chemist's son,
But Johnny is no more

What Johnny thought was H2O
Was H2SO4

Andy

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

C2H5OK

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Potassium ethoxide??

David

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Over here in France – beyond the reach of EU Regs Ha Ha!, we use any old acid to clean the limescale off the lavatory pan etc, the rest goes down the drain / septic tank!! Mind you, one has to take a few precautions before sitting on the seat again.

Acid, acetone, both celulose and synthetic thinners and even the banned carbon tet sit on the same shelf at the local DIY store. I would hate to think what the HSE would say about that, however it is becomming more difficult (but not impossible) to buy sodium chloride crystals. As an aside, I saw Calcium Carbide for making wet acetyline gas on the shelf, and wondered who on earth bought that.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Please be extremely careful with what you have (concentrated H2SO4). I cannot stress how dangerous this is – it will go through your skin and flesh in a second. It realy should be taken to your local university chemistry department and left with them – I am stunned it is even out there. If you happen to drop the bottle and it breaks that is most certainly the end of you. Seriously!

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

The history of the manufacture of Sulphuric acid and its application in industrial chemistry and metals processing is long and fascinating . Anyone interested could start by looking up the ' Lead Chamber ' process for making the acid and the last works to use this method at Seaton Carew , Durham .

There is ordinary concentrated acid and a super concentrate known as Oleum . Oleum is not commonly available outside acid manufacturing plants but is the base stock from which ordinary concentrated and dilute acids are made for general use . Oleum is about as vile a substance as you could imagine and extremely dangerous .

Not far from where I now live there was once Steely's Acid Works which supplied mainly pickling acids to the metals industry . The whole place was awash with smelly and corrosive liquids . Not only the factory itself but all down the slightly sloping street and eventually into the surface water drains or local streams and eventually river .

Every surface of floor , street , loading bays and delivery lorries was both corroded and covered in a glacial deposit . The place has been closed now 40+ years and all the ground around has to have barrier layers put in before anything can be built there .

Most of the acid was supplied to customers in drums or large glass vessels but some of the acids and certainly battery acid were available cash and carry – bring your own bottle . Battery acid was dispensed via a huge rubber bulb 'hydrometer' style syringe .

The men wore flat caps and gauntlets but no other protection ,

I think any Health and Safety man visiting then would simply have been dissolved .

Michael Williams .

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Well, well Fizzy, don't exaggerate! I handled 98% sulfuric acid (in a glass bottle) when I was less than 14 years old, and I'm nearing 70 now. I don't think the small boo-boos I suffer now are reminiscences of the couple of skin burns I got from that stuff.

SpeedyBuilder, it is a long time wish of me to make a visit in one of these French shops. Unfortunately I don't know any names, and cannot raid all possible shops in a reasonable time. So I would be pleased to learn some (chain shop?) names to be able to make a direct jump. It is quite well known that all kind of interesting stuff is still available there.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Posted by David Littlewood on 24/08/2012 23:11:06:

Neil

Your post made me laugh – but you had the wrong murderer; the acid bath man was John George Haig, hanged for serial murder.

SNIP

A bit off-topic but …

Back in 1988 I had a spell in hospital in Romford, Essex. The guy in the next bed, retired by then, told me that he had worked in the big sewage treatment works at Beckton, at the end of the Great Northern Outfall sewer. He said that, at the time of the Haig acid murders, the Met Police sent through a request that the workers should keep an eye open for any false teeth or plastic handbags arriving in the sludge lagoons!

Optimistic or what?!!!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Speedy,

Sodium chloride becoming difficult to buy in France? Are they becoming health-obsessed or do they just not like you adding seasoning to the amount the divine chef thought was appropriate?

David

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