Single to 3 phase invertor and smart meters

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Posted by Samsaranda on 10/02/2019 21:50:20:

John, in the UK there is no facility for monitoring how much generated power is fed back to the grid with domestic metering, the government assumes that 50% of kWh that are paid for with the feed in tariff will be exported to the grid so they pay every PV generator for the deemed 50%. That could change with smart meters if they can detect exported kw hours.

Dave W

Its the 50% "guess" thats the problem if I have a smart meter installed, it will know exactly whats happening. I am told that the 50% figure is fairly accurate, it may favour the home owner or not, eitherway its marginal. But why give away money? Without going back through my notes from when the panels were installed, I think I understand your point, hence the 50%.

John

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

At our current property, smart meters were already installed by the energy supplier, EON. We switched to Scottish Power last April. We supply readings to SP every three months and receive a bill accordingly. We pay by direct debit.

Our previous property had meters supplied by British Gas, as we hadnt sold it yet, we transferred to SP to take advantage of their costs, again last April. We supply readings to them as we do for the home where we live now.

Bottom line here is, Smart Meters dont provide me with any advantage, its no issue for me providing a reading. I keep my energy useage down by switching off lights in unoccupied rooms, turning down the room stats on unoccupied rooms etc.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There is some confusion above about the FIT. All installations have an extra meter to record the actual power generated regardless of where it goes. The next stage is dependent on the supplier you are with. Some suppliers, especially in the early days knew the main meter wouldn't go backwards to record the actual flow back into the mains so just agreed a 50% rule. Others especially more recently got wise to the fact that there were devices on the market to feed excess into heaters etc so ensure none went back n to the grid, yet the homeowner still got the 50%. So they took the trouble to change the meter for one that registers what goes in both directions. More detail on the Navitron forum.

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

I agree that all the predicted "savings" for the consumer are complete bullsh*t for the majority of customers. I finally relented because I was getting so fed up of being bombarded with information. I have had a new meter for about a month now. My supplier has not yet caught up with the billing. It is a bit of a novelty to see what does and doesn't consume energy, but as others have said, the vast majority of usage is essential. The house is heated by a ground source heat pump, which is 2.3kW. I pay my bill on monthly standing order, whch means I spread the cost of the winter over the year, but on the slipside my account is also in credit for most of the year. It will be interesting to see how more accurate usage impacts this. Time will tell

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Believe me, if the suppliers were not getting a good deal, they would never have so gleefully accepted the arbitrary figure of 50% export. Many systems placed on houses, where both occupants were at work all day long (maximum PV output) would be using far less than 50% of the system output.

That probably changed a bit when immersuns, solics, etc came on the market and diverted excess generated power to domestic hot water heating, but they have still not complained re the 50/50 split, so are quietly raking in profits of buying cheap and selling at full retail price! Not a bad mark up? About 400%? Out of one house and used in the next, so no grid costs? Diverters are not a good way to use high grade energy, but better than being scammed by the leccy retailers.

Smart meters will lead to increased prices. They already have and are still not worth it. It is the customers who are paying for the suppliers to screw them further, later!

I call my wife ‘switch on and never switch off’ or ‘turn it but never turn it down’. Describes her quite succinctly!

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

In respect of generated solar being exported back to the grid I was under the impression that all systems generating 3.68 kw or less were subject to the deemed 50% rule, was unaware that some were subject to export metering. As a point of interest we have an energy monitor on our meter feed, this has a transmitter clamped around the live feed from the meter and displays the flow in watts on a portable unit indoors. Since having the solar panels fitted there is now two way flow on the live feed because exported power now travels the opposite way to incoming power, unfortunately as the meter is unable to detect the direction of electron flow it just records a figure of flow irrespective of direction. It is therefore not possible to know whether we are importing or exporting to the grid so I have told the wife that to be efficient we need the number of watts displayed to be as low as possible, ideally zero, that means when the sun is shining and we are generating we are using what is generated and conversely when we are drawing from the grid the figure is as low as possible. When the tumble dryer is switched on the reading rockets up, although it is an energy + appliance it uses about 4.2 kw, by far the biggest consumer of energy that we have, we have always operated an energy consumption of if we need it we use it, the solar panels mean that with a little thought and rescheduling we can use as much as possible of the solar generated energy which of course is free and we get paid for it.

Dave W

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

About the old type meters,back before the 2011 earthquake in Christchurch NZ Whispertech, the manufacturer of the Whispergen Stirling Engine domestic power supply had one of their units set up in the workshop with an old rotating disc meter on it, and most of the time it rotated backwards with the hands on the dials moving backward.

Ian S C

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Samsaranda on 11/02/2019 19:37:07:

In respect of generated solar being exported back to the grid I was under the impression that all systems generating 3.68 kw or less were subject to the deemed 50% rule, was unaware that some were subject to export metering. As a point of interest we have an energy monitor on our meter feed, this has a transmitter clamped around the live feed from the meter and displays the flow in watts on a portable unit indoors. Since having the solar panels fitted there is now two way flow on the live feed because exported power now travels the opposite way to incoming power, unfortunately as the meter is unable to detect the direction of electron flow it just records a figure of flow irrespective of direction. It is therefore not possible to know whether we are importing or exporting to the grid so I have told the wife that to be efficient we need the number of watts displayed to be as low as possible, ideally zero, that means when the sun is shining and we are generating we are using what is generated and conversely when we are drawing from the grid the figure is as low as possible. When the tumble dryer is switched on the reading rockets up, although it is an energy + appliance it uses about 4.2 kw, by far the biggest consumer of energy that we have, we have always operated an energy consumption of if we need it we use it, the solar panels mean that with a little thought and rescheduling we can use as much as possible of the solar generated energy which of course is free and we get paid for it.

Dave W

If you are referring to your supply meter logging import and export as import, you are getting hammered every time you export!

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

NDIY, not referring to the utilities meter but a small energy monitor that I acquired and fitted on the live input from the utilities meter. I have been monitoring our unit consumption in respect of readings from the utilities meter and compared to 12 months ago there is so far a 10% drop in power used, this is since day one of the solar panels generating, quite pleased with that result as we are generating in the darkest winter months I.e. December, January and February so expect a lot more solar to be utilised in the Summer period and therefore a significant reduction in units purchased from the grid.

Dave W

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