Sieg X2 type mill improvements

[Men IfrParticipant @menifr84251]

What are the know improvements for this mill?

Im im the process of adding digital calipers for dro’s.

Is there any way to reduce or eliminate the backlash in the bed for climb milling?

I heard somewhere welding up the tilt feature, filling with concrete or both may improve the stiffness a lot.

What about brass guideways?

Anything else?

[Men IfrParticipant @menifr84251]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Best way to avoid problems when climb milling on a small mill is to avoid it! Only use it for the finest of finishing cuts, if really necessary.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

SX3 mills use ball screws and nuts to eliminate backlash

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Here are a few articles about improving a Sieg X2 milling machine:

***Link***

***Link***

***Link***

***Link*** – Reducing Z axis backlash

Thor

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

You don't want Brass guideways. I assume you mean gibs. You could do the Turcite B slideway material to the one side of the gib strip though.

Neil

[Gordon Brown 1Participant @gordonbrown1]

ArcEuroTrade do a fixed column conversion for the X2, also increases the Y travel. I have one fitted to my Chester X2 version, best thing I've done to it.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/X2-Mini-Mill-Spares/X2-1-2-68-Fixed-Column-Conversion-Kit

[Gordon Brown 1Participant @gordonbrown1]

ArcEuroTrade also do thrust bearings for the x axis that may help to reduce backlash but I think they are out of stock. I also fitted a belt drive to mine using a kit I bought from the USA but I don't think it's made any more. This stops the problem with the plastic gears stripping, makes the mill much quieter and increases the top speed slightly. I'm in the process of sorting out an led ring light to fit around the quill to give good workpiece illumination as my eyesight isn't what it was.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I climb mill on my X2 <ducks> but I probably have the slides a bit tighter than most people.

Best mods are:

• Scrape the bottom of the column to get as much contact between it and the base as possible and correct any tilt.
• Triangular stiffening plate at base of column – basically a big hole for the tilt bolt and two M10 or M12 screws through the plate and hand-fitted spacers into the corners of the base.
• Convert to belt drive.
• Fit angular contact ball bearings.

I wrote this up for MEW several years ago, and it makes a huge difference giving performance like a rigid column SX2.

Neil

[ZebethyalParticipant @zebethyal]

Mine started off as an Axminster SX2, so it already had the belt drive, ideally I wanted the solid column HiTorque Mini Mill (3960) from LittleMachineShop, but nobody sells it over here, so started with a suitable alternative that was on special at the time due to a paint colour change over at Axminster.

Here are some of the enhancements I have made to mine:

• MT3 to R8 spindle swap – details
• Igaging digital scales – details
• Gas strut to replace spring – details
• Solid column conversion – details
• Yuriy's DRO with Igaging scales – details

I am currently using it to make the parts for its own CNC conversion.

I also now have enough spare parts to make an X2 Freak like Hoss should the mood take me

I also climb mill on my X2, my roughing passes alternate between conventional and climb milling, with a climb finish pass.

Edited By Zebethyal on 23/11/2016 10:09:28

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 23/11/2016 00:42:43:

SX3 mills use ball screws and nuts to eliminate backlash

Just to avoid any mis-understanding, the SX3's are not factory fitted with ball screws and related nuts. People usually fit ball screws and related nuts to their machines for the purpose of CNC conversions.

Ketan at ARC.

[samuel heywoodParticipant @samuelheywood23031]

An under advertised bit of infomation gleaned off the web is is that if you're using carbide, you really SHOULD be climb milling~ as not good for tool life otherwise.

I'm not saying i know very much, but i read up what i can, & like to experiment.

General advice seems to be not to climb mill on most manual machines except for "finishing cuts" ~ as it can be potentially very dangerous when the backlash kicks in & something grabs.

Well thinks I, My X1's roughing cuts are probably most peoples idea of a finishing cut, so i tried it & now i

almost always climb mill on my little x1.!! 10mmx1mm cut in BMS is ok climb milling for me.

Some pro's on climb milling~ kinder on tool (read~ less wear), less horsepower needed for given cut & to my ears a sweeter cutting noise.

You must make sure all gibs etc are snug~ i've fitted thrust bearings to leadscrews & this is a good starting point if you wish to try climb milling.

Bear in mind your x2's a more powerful beast than mine so more likely to come to grief.~ start lightly & build up to a "safe" level of cut.

I did get a "grab" early on in experiments(before thrust bearings fitted) , whole table lurched,terrible noise, motor stalled & i thought i'd bust something for sure,

It then cut very badly afterwards,but luckily all that was needed was re adjustment of gibs,leadsrew nuts etc. Not happened since. But on a more powerful machine i may have been dodging flying metal !

Please read up about climb milling first if you've not already done this so you understand the potential dangers on a manual machine.

All i can say is it works for me & my x1. hope that helps a little.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Why climb mill?

Neil

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

First apologies, I am sure what follows has been covered before but this is my take on it and I am of the opinion that the more you read and do the more you learn. I was a machine tool designer for most of my working years but working with much larger machines than what we are using here, well some of us.

Having a Sieg SX2P for most of the year and using it I finally decided to improve the head counterbalance. Looked at quite a few on YouTube and decided to go my own way. I also decided to raise the column in order to move it back 50mm (the column bolt centres).

The 3MT spindle head weighs about 15kg. I bought two 100N, 160 stroke 6mm rod fixed force gas struts with end fittings. The idea was to take a 3mm wire rope from the head, over a fixed pulley at the top of the column, round the pulley at the end of the strut assembly inside the column and fix the cable back at the top of the column. This design allows the gas strut stroke to be half the total head travel so would fit inside the column.

Using the machine over the last few months it soon became apparent that the spindle was too far forward in relation to the table. A lot of work was done with the Y axis hanging off the front of the base, so loosing rigidity. When I used a vice it was mounted on the table front tee slot. The answer here was to move the column back by fitting a riser.

Having made all the parts I stripped the column assembly off the machine. Removed the existing counter balance and placed the new balance assembly into the column. I tapped four holes, M5, into the top of the column to fix the balance assembly. While I had the column off I decided to take a look at the rack and pinion clearances. I ended up packing the rack out by 0.4mm to get better engagement, this took out most of the play. The head was drilled to take the cable and a simple screw clamp was made to hold the cable inside the head. The cable was fitted round the pulleys and the balance assembly fitted, using a similar clamp to fix the cable to the top plate. At this point I fitted a test bar into the spindle to check spindle alignment to the column. After clamping up the head using all four dovetail screws I found the spindle true to the side of the dovetail but out from the column face. I took the spindle casting off the dovetail casting and did a cleanup, after refitting it was better so decided to leave this for another day as I wanted to check it when mounted back on the machine.

Continued. See next post…..

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Continuation from last post…..

The two packers were fitted to the X-Y base, these had been finish machined for height together. Column assembly re-fitted and bolted up tight. Now the head doesn’t move under its own weight, the star wheel handle has almost no play. The front hand wheel assembly needs looking at to remove some play from the worm and wheel. I trammed the head using a sheet of glass on the table and put some aluminium foil under one side of the column to get zero side to side.

Now I just have to use the machine to see if it was all worth it, I will then decide what I need to do to improve the spindle accuracy, if necessary.

At the moment the cable pulleys are just mounted onto their shafts, after trials I intend to mount them on shielded ball bearings.

All this work was done to sketches and the seat of the pants, but if people are interested I could create a few drawings to attach. Photos can be found in my album.

Howard

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Have now ran the updated mill. The increased stiffness in the x axis has transformed cutting during both milling and drilling. Well worth the effort.

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