Progress No2 GS Pillar Drill

[Philip Edwards 2Participant @philipedwards2]

[Philip Edwards 2Participant @philipedwards2]

I've had this drill for about 20 years and have never been able to remove the chuck. I have some taper shank drills that I would ideally like to use, plus the chuck is a bit past it so would like to change it.

I've tried the usual drift with a big hammer to no avail and I've tried wedges. The other day, having read the excellent threads on this forum regarding the restoration of these drills, I decided to extract the quill and try removing the chuck on the bench.

I have got to the stage – see photo – where application of some heat wouldn't shift the chuck. Reasoning that I could apply some serious oxy/acet heat if I could remove the bearing I addressed that. As you can see, the bearing moved along the shaft about 3mm – but then stuck, having come apart in the meantime – balls & cages dropped out! Problem is that I can only use a drift on the inner race and the retaining plate (to the right of the chuck) is forcing me onto an angle – far from ideal. The heat probably hasn't done the bearing any good either – best price for replacement is £94.93 (probably plus VAT). – can't really justify that spend.

Any ideas – otherwise my next step is to try to get it back together & live with it.

This has turned into one of those jobs I wish I hadn't started!

Thanks

Phil.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Yes,I,ve had a few jobs like that. Now,I tend to think twice,before leaving things alone,since the "cure" is often worse than the fault.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

What photo. Phillip, go to the top of the page and click on the camera beside Albums, and start your self an album. Reduce the pictures to about 640 x 480.

Ian S C

[Philip Edwards 2Participant @philipedwards2]

Sorry about that – here's the photo….

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Philip Edwards 2 on 22/01/2019 18:24:39:

– best price for replacement is £94.93 (probably plus VAT). – can't really justify that spend.

.

Ouch !!

Publish the spec for the bearing, and we can have an informal competition to find the cheapest source.

MichaelG.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Might even be a part number on the outer race?

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Well to get the bearing off, carefully use an angle grinder to grind one side of the bearing down to the quill. As the wall gets thinner you can see how close you are getting to the quill by the temper mark developing on the thin section. You can stop just short of the inner diameter and give it a good whack which should crack the remainder. If it's still stuck run a bead of weld parallel with the quill opposite the flat you have ground, the contraction as the weld cools will pull the two sides away from the quill. I am sure you can get a bearing that will do the job for less than £90! Having gone this far and while the bearing is off you may as well get the chuck out too!

Paul.

[Philip Edwards 2Participant @philipedwards2]

My bearing supplier tried 4 or 5 sources and this was the cheapest – highest was about £125.

The spec is LDJT 25

Phil.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

+1 for Paul's bearing removal method, I've even got an internal bearing out using a dremel that way.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Philip Edwards 2 on 23/01/2019 18:22:24:

My bearing supplier tried 4 or 5 sources and this was the cheapest – highest was about £125.

The spec is LDJT 25

Phil.

.

Thanks, Phil

To get things started … here is the first hit on a google search:

**LINK**

http://rolling.hu/search/LDJT+25.php

… so at least we know the dimensions.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/01/2019 18:39:55

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Posted by Philip Edwards 2 on 23/01/2019 18:22:24:

My bearing supplier tried 4 or 5 sources and this was the cheapest – highest was about £125.

The spec is LDJT 25

Phil.

Having heated the quill and knocked it about I doubt there is a real need to fit a high precision bearing! For general drilling any old cooking spec bearing of the right sizes would do the job.

Paul.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

can you lose 0.04mm on the length [width] ?

This appears to be a widely used item: **LINK**

https://www.thebigbearingstore.com/5205-2rs-5205-zz-radial-ball-bearing-25x52x20-6/

MichaelG.

.

Edit: I suspect that 'rounding' is at play 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/01/2019 18:56:01

[J BENNETT 1Participant @jbennett1]

Assuming the 20.64 dimension is the width of the bearing you can get double bearings with the same internal and external dimensions but 18mm wide. They cost under £25 pounds (4205 ATN9 Double Row SKF Ball Bearing&nbsp and you could probably make up a spacer to make up the gap. Not an ideal solution, but worth a try if the other option is to scrap. There may be other suitable bearings just found this one after a quick look.

[J BENNETT 1Participant @jbennett1]

Michael G's post must have gone on whilst I was typing. I have found the same bearing as his post at Bearing Boys for just over £20.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I’m not exactly sure what you have tried. The usual tapered wedge, though from one side to the other has always worked for me with tanged morse taper fittings. If your drift is through the spindle, I am not so surprised it did not work. Tell us a bit more in detail. Heat may help, but if the inserted taper expands at the same rate as the socket, the difference in expansion will be zilch.

The bearing is scrap. ID and OD is needed, possibly as well as length, to find the equivalent. Most bearings have been metric for decades, even if quoted as imperial.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by not done it yet on 23/01/2019 19:27:56:

… ID and OD is needed, possibly as well as length, to find the equivalent.

.

We've done that bit

MichaelG.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I used to buy old drilling machines do a refurb and paint and sell them,I never found one with a double row race bearing,all were single row,the drill was no doubt intended for industrial use ie 8 hrs a day all week,for hobby use a single row ball race would be adequate just machine up some spacers to accomodate a smaller bearing,lot cheaper. To remove the chuck it needs a brickies club hammer ,the spindle resting on something big and heavy, like an anvil, with a strip of brass between anvil and spindle to prevent bruising then use a home made extractor wedge with about half the taper of a normal morse taper wedge,easiest way would be to modify an existing wedge with an angle grinder, also make sure the wedge is resting on top of the chuck tapered arbour and not on some small shoulder or burr in the extraction hole of the spindle,then give a hard single blow rather than a series of lighter blows, you get similar problems with extracting taper gib head keys from flywheels,take time in getting the key drift set up correct then give the drift one almighty blow, lighter taps or blows just have rivitting effect.

[Philip Edwards 2Participant @philipedwards2]

OK – thanks for all the help guys, very useful.

So, rather than give up & re-assemble… I shall not let the machine beat me!!

I'll get the replacement bearing… 25x52x2.6 as Michael G suggested. It seems you can pretty well pay what you like, I'm thinking this looks ok & it is supplied from the UK…

f:0″>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pyramid-Parts-rubber-sealed-Bearings-All-sizes/290784057297?epid=914921501&hash=item43b41497d1:m:mKgDRqo16V-JIRaHGVNj9aw:rk:3f:0

I'll then take the angle grinder to the old inner race. One of the two outer races is still up in the sliding collar thing that takes the quill so I hope that's willing to come out.

I'm impressed with the response on this Forum – you are clearly a very knowledgeable bunch – thanks.

Phil.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

First thing I would do with that chuck, bearing in mind it is on a MT, is to set it up appropriately to alleviate damage to the quill, so the chuck is facing upwards, jaws fully retracted, and using a brass packing piece in between, take the aforementioned 4lb lump hammer, and give it one full force crack with the hammer to drive the chuck home in the quill.

I kid you not, that may apply enough force to just crack the taper free, so you can use a MT extractor.

I would also try a taper extractor, and as suggested above, machine it so it has a shallower taper.

If that doesn't work, what I would try then is to make two identical wedges, and machine them thin enough so you can apply one from either side, grease them well, and if you have a big enough vice, don't hit the wedges, but squeeze them in the vice, so you apply pressure rather than force, and it is evenly from either side.

I have got some MT shanks apart that have also been together for years, you just have to work out non destructive ways to do it, whilst applying the most effective force.

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