Pillar Drill advice – Meddings Driltru or MB4

[Andy Tyrrell-ClarkParticipant @andytyrrell-clark73692]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and just in the process of setting up a workshop at home. I'm currently looking for a second hand Meddings pillar drill but can't decide between the Driltru or M4 models. Both are well regarded by people and I know the Driltru started production about 10 years after the M4's but they both then carried on in production together for a good few decades afterwards.

Despite much searching online I can't seem to find any direct comparisons of the two drills and opinions on which would be the better model to buy (and more precise if there is a difference).

Assuming the two models were in a similar condition what are peoples thoughts as to which is the better drill to buy?

Many Thanks
Andy

[Andy Tyrrell-ClarkParticipant @andytyrrell-clark73692]

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

If you are starting from scratch and are also considering buying a vertical mill go for the mill first and do your drilling on that. A half decent drill is going to be a couple of hundred and you might as well add that to your mill budget then if you really find you cannot do without buy a pillar drill later.

regards Martin

[old AlParticipant @oldal]

I don't know the machines you have indicated as your choices, but.

If I were choosing my first drill, my major considerations would be:-

Bench or floor mounted

Size of morse taper sleeve——–don't get a pillar drill without one

Don't get a small one with a tiny motor

Anything else on the list will just cost you money.

I have been using a horrid 2nd hand Sealy pillar drill for the last 20 years, never got round to replacing it. And the depth stop dosnt work. It does drill holes, that what pillar drills do. Spend your money on stuff that's more important

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Given my choice of drill it would be an elderly tool room type which I might have to refurbish hoping that the rotating parts ran in races of some kind and also that the quill hadn't worn loose. They are extremely heavily built and the drill will be very square to the table which means that they can produce round holes. These still tend to fetch high prices at dealers but some neglected ones sell for very little money.

I have to be realistic though. I recently changed drill to one that has a back gear in the hope that it will help drill true stainless in case I ever have to do that again. My other drill was also beginning to show some signs of bearing wear which could be changed of course. Not sure it will help really with stainless as at low speeds the feed needs to be correspondingly low too.

In terms of the table arrangement my previous one has a round table that can be rotated and also swung around the column. Very useful as any drilling position can be reached when work is clamped to the table or in a vice. I will miss that and am wondering if I can arrange for the old ones bits to fit the new one.

John

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[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The Drilltru is a lighter machine than the M4, the M4 has capacity of 7/8" and a speed range to suit 80-4000rpm with a gearbox to give a total of 10 speeds. The Drilltru has 5 speeds from 500-4000rpm which will limit its maximum drill size. The M4 has a very heavy table which if not fitted with the optional rise and fall mechanism tends to require some muscle power to adjust. Both machines are well made, it just depends what your needs are.

Mike

Edited By Michael Poole on 12/06/2015 19:13:12

[paul 1950Participant @paul1950]

i got a meddings A10 off ebay a few years ago best £360.00 i have ever spent

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> In terms of the table arrangement my previous one has a round table that can be rotated and also swung around the column. Very useful as any drilling position can be reached when work is clamped to the table or in a vice. I will miss that and am wondering if I can arrange for the old ones bits to fit the new one.

See the tips in the latest MEW for an idea that may help

Neil

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I have a Fobco and a Meddings 4 The Fobco is more sensitive for very small drills but the 500 rpm bottom speed is too high for reaming,countersinking etc, The large Meddings can drill holes up to 7/8 ,ream at slow speeds ,drive a tapping attachment, drill tough materials at the correct speed, I would go for the Meddings though check the taper in the spindle to make sure thats its in good condition,and drills have not been spun in the taper. Also check the gears,some are tufnol and they can loose some teeth if the operator has changed from high to low while the drill is still running.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Andy,

I have owned a Meddings M4 for about 30 years with every satisfaction. It is a "proper " heavily built machine designed to do accurate and frequent work. I also have a Clarke drill, inherited from my late Uncle, of similar specification and they are as different as chalk and cheese. The Clarke one is very lightly constructed and it is very, very easy to deflect the table by a considerable extent when drilling anything but very small hole. As Michael said previously the Meddings table is very heavy and solid and cannot be deflects even when using a 20mm drill and plenty of down force.

I know nothing of the Driltru model but anything made by Meddings will be properly built to do work to professional standards.

[Andy Tyrrell-ClarkParticipant @andytyrrell-clark73692]

Many thanks for all the replies guys. I'll keep my eyes out for one of the MB4's which seems more capable for the lower speeds. I'm also keeping my eyes out for a reasonable Bridgeport mill and am in the process of picking up a Myford Super 7 Lathe (I know they seem to divide opinion). Those combined with a multitude of hand tools should get me well underway.

I'm sure they'll be plenty more reading and questions as i get back into this but thanks for all your replies and thoughts.

Regards

Andy

[Adam HarrisParticipant @adamharris13683]

Andy I have an MF4 I might part with, only because I also have an MF5 which is basically identical but a bit more powerful (and has an MT3 taper as oppose to MT2). Their M series was altogether a more expensive and robust machine than their Driltru, ,the latter only having a feeble 1/3hp motor. The M4 came with a 3/4 hp motor and the M5 a 1 hp motor. I would not waste your time with a Driltru unless you are happy to restrict yourself to lightweight drilling. The M series is accurate and sensitive enough to do small stuff as well as handle heavy duty drilling and therein lies its enduring value today. If interested please private message me. If short of space you might consider a Mill Drill machine which is another topic, and there are some excellent old machines for not that much more in price than a decent M4, albeit a bit heavier. Adam

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Andy Tyrrell-Clark on 14/06/2015 22:15:29:

Many thanks for all the replies guys. I'll keep my eyes out for one of the MB4's which seems more capable for the lower speeds. I'm also keeping my eyes out for a reasonable Bridgeport mill and am in the process of picking up a Myford Super 7 Lathe (I know they seem to divide opinion). Those combined with a multitude of hand tools should get me well underway.

I'm sure they'll be plenty more reading and questions as i get back into this but thanks for all your replies and thoughts.

Regards

Andy

IIf you want to save money make sure that the lathe comes with plenty of equipment and if possible try before you buy or at least arrange a decent demonstration. Same with the milling machine really and for full capability a combined horizontal and vertical machine is a better idea really. With this type the vertical and horizontal heads are attachments. They are about but it's best to find one with both heads.

On lathes Myfords can be excellent if correctly adjusted but the general arrangement they use isn't really conducive to still working well when there is wear especially on the bed. or poor adjustment. It's no mistake that the vast majority of lathes use prismatic beds and have done so for a long time now. The reason is simple really. If designed correctly cutting forces force the saddle against the bed and as things wear they still tend to remain in contact. Things don't work out that well on Myfords. The Raglans use the same style but as the bed is wider they can be a lot better. The other aspect is the guide length. There is a principle usually referred to as narrow guide. The idea is simple, say you have a bar in hole with 0.0005in clearance. If the hole is 1 diameter long the bar can waggle by so many degrees, think what happens when it's 10 diameters long. It waggles a lot less. Prismatic beds can have very high ratio's especially if the tail stock runs on another one. Often that rail is used to locate the headstock which means that the ends of the saddle can pass both the tailstock and the headstock making them even longer. The tailstock rail is unlikely to wear much as well maintaining alignment. The same can be done with dovetail beds by running then tailstock in a "slot" in the centre of the bed. Myford have done that in the past but seemed to stop doing it. Probably to reduce the weight of lathes like the ML10. The 7's work like this but the guide is a lot wider than a prism and going on Raglans the bed is too narrow but Raglans have a similar problem.

If I'm not careful I would start on headstock designs but length comes into that as well for similar reason but related to the accuracy of the positioning of holes for bearings. Plain bearing correctly adjusted and in perfect condition can result in a better finish than can easily be obtained with races. Races have the advantage that they can be changed and are usually pre loaded and offer low friction. The same can't be said about the Super 7's front cone. A common complaint is that they wont drill as hole as big as the ML7. Some of that will be down to adjustment, not easy and temperature changes. The ML7's problem is at some point the need for new bearings. These are hand scraped to fit the spindle but I understand some have managed to cast white metal ones in place easing the scraping work. It must be fun to align the spindle first. Scraping would have to be used to fix any problems in that area is it is with phos bronze which Myford offered near the end.

This sort of explains why I switched to a Boxford but they are heavier lathes than the 7's and most are under drive. The other reason was all of the tools that came with it. I'm not saying don't buy a Myford or a Bridgeport. There can be excellent examples of both about also crap Boxfords but they do react better to general wear and tear just down to the design of the bed. They and similar machines used to be popular with people who made a living as home turners, batch work for various companies. Some Myfords have probably been used for this sort of thing as well. It's surprising how quickly lathes can wear when used daily for long periods. My idea of a lathe is one that produces perfectly parallel work with a lovely glossy finish. I have used lathes like that but have to be more realistic at home.

John

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[Andy Tyrrell-ClarkParticipant @andytyrrell-clark73692]

Thanks for a very informative and insightful post John – you've given me plenty to think about.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Andy Tyrrell-Clark on 17/06/2015 15:05:28:

Thanks for a very informative and insightful post John – you've given me plenty to think about.

Not too much I hope Andy. As I said there are good Myfords out there. Milling ? That sort of machine is seldom mentioned. It does have it's advantages particularly related to block work. I know of some one for instance who finally found a horizontal head for his machine, bought some cheap used cutters off ebay and then made as many quick change tool holders as he wanted. These machines do get very very heavy as the size goes up. On the other hand a lot can be done with a Bridgeport. It's flexible in a different sort of way at times. I have used one that was at work fitted with glass optical scales – capable of getting near jig borer performance on co ordinate hole type work. It was a nice machine to use. The floor there probably wasn't thick enough to support a real jig borer nor could they afford one. Much depends on what you want to do. Most model engineering type designs are aimed at vertical milling when it's needed even on a vertical slide on a Myford. Myfords generally figure in the designs some where. Sometimes that causes problems when things are made on other machines – centre height difference for instance. Most people one way or the other usually lust after T slotted cross slides. That limits the field some what although there is a company that will make them and a number of other parts.

**LINK**

I think my main message really was don't rush. Try for machines with a lot of bits and pieces eg on a lathe, 3 , 4 jaw, face plate and both steadies. The chucks are likely to be better quality than ones you are likely to buy new. And do try and get a demo of the machine working.

Mind you I do feel that the buying public should be more aware of the design aspects of lathes in particular and why they tend to be as they are.

John

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