Octopus … Is there method in this madness ?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just received this, by eMail

.

MichaelG.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Having seen the smart meter advert featuring Angela Rippon, I have wondered if I should work nights, rather than during the day.

This might be an advantage of having a smart meter  (Finally they have worn me down and now we have them!)

Maybe the Octopus advert is an attempt to increase customer base, with a “free” offer?

Obviously, it makes sense to spread the generating load more evenly across the 24 hours, avoiding the “peak hours” around breakfast and evening meals

Howard

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Are you an existing customer Michael?, I am and have not had the offer.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Im also with octopus and no offer.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

It might depend which tariff you are on. Also, you may have to sign up for this.

 

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Don’t get too excited. I’d reckon it would be difficult to benefit by more than £2 or £3 with this.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Yes, I’m an existing smart-metered customer

No, I’m not excited

My guess is that they are load-testing the system.

MichaelG.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The advantage to the electricity companies is the leveling of load over the day. It costs a lot to shut down or startup a generator.
My worry is that this is the carrot to set behaviours and later will come the stick of increased cost during peak times…

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

There is also the issue of “constraint payments” where generators are paid not to generate electricity because there is no-one to use it and no way of storing it.

It may be that someone’s modelling has identified that period as one where the combination of solar (very sunny) and wind force is going to produce lots of excess electricity. The price to Octopus may well go negative in those periods. To avoid constraint payments they may have decided to try and boost consumption.

Just another example of how badly broken the energy market is in this country.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I cant see anything wrong with variable tariff. At times of peak demand they have to bring on more expensive generators, when demand is low they have to turn down solar and wind. Anything that can be done to level demand seems like a good idea. If properly implemented it should reduce annual cost, but dont expect Whitehall to get it right.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

One thing’s for sure Michael, it won’t be for your benefit!

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Smart Meters can be unreliable. Last October my gas meter stopped passing readings to the electricity meter which passes both readings to Octopus. It was pretty obvious what the problem was but it took me 4 months to persuade Octopus to send an engineer out to confirm the problem I had diagnosed and replace the meter. In this case the electricity meter continued to send readings but they can develop faults too and the over the air link to Octopus can be fragile and drop out.

In principle this all sounds very good but being at the leading edge means that you are liable to strike any obstacles first. Maybe better to let the initiative bed in and get some feedback before committing yourself.

If there are glitches between your meter and Octopus what are the practical consequences?

I sense that Octopus are suffering indigestion at present due to taking on thousands of new customers from failed suppliers and this is impacting on their customer services functions.

Colin

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Octopus are far from being mad.  More likely it is the customer?

[not done it yet]

On not done it yet Said:

Octopus are far from being mad.  More likely it is the customer?

Is that really the best you can do ?

MichaelG.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Octopus are far from being mad. More likely it is the customer?

Sorry, I don’t understand that comment. Why would anyone be mad??? What is your reasoning?

Customers want the service advertised, they are not mad! Nor are Octopus.

At the moment I think Octopus are struggling a bit to meet customer requirements in some areas. They are under pressure and hopefully they will get on top of the problem.

As I said earlier, maybe best to let things settle down before committing to new initiatives.

Doing things on the internet can be very convenient when everything goes right but when it goes wrong it can be a real headache to sort out.

If you want to proceed on the offer made to you then that is entirely your decision but do be aware of the potential risks.

Colin

 

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

None of the above.

It is about the way contracts for difference work in the electricity supply market. Where the market cost for a unit of electricity falls below the agreed strike price, the government i.e. us the tax payers step in to make up the difference.(For the  solar / wind supplier, heads I win tails, tails you the punter, lose!).

Octopus the retailer are far from mad, but spotted a business opportunity to purchase units at significantly below market cost and bung it to the punters at a discount and still make a profit (no doubt encouraged by arm twisting from HMG who are getting increasingly embarrassed at the ballooning cost of paying the wind and solar providers vast quantities of your cash for not supplying energy )

If you want to call out the madmen, look to the UK Treasury and the great and the good therein that set up the whole ludicrous mess in the first place.

You will get the opposite effect when demand is high and needs to be offloaded, i.e. you will be paid to switch off your washing machine etc.

The idea is for variable charging via smart meters, but for it to work everybody has to have one and assumes that nobody will get pissed off by not knowing what their electricity will cost at any time of the day.

Symptomatic of a failing energy supply market I”m afraid.

 

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Bright sun and a good wind = cheap electricity ! By the same token a calm night = expensive electricity ! This is the route our government and suppliers have gone down, what ever way we go WE pay. Offers like this are just a symptom of the situation ! The observant will realise that it is only a matter of time and circumstance before the lights will go out ! Noel.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Couldn’t we put Ed Miliband into a giant hamster wheel / generator combo and just poke him with a sharp stick when demand was high?

 

 

 

[Martin of Wick]

On Martin of Wick Said:

None of the above. […]

 

 

Thanks for the detailed response, Martin

I would, however, question the validity of your opening line ^^^

Surely the answer to my question must be:

Yes, there is method in this madness.

MichaelG.

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AI Overview

The idiom “method in one’s madness” means that even though someone’s actions may seem strange, illogical, or chaotic, there is a deliberate plan or reason behind them. It suggests that what appears to be random or senseless has a hidden purpose or logic.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

This has nothing to do with addressing the problem of grid unreliability due to increasing amounts of renewables, apart from how to make more money out of it.

Here is the comparison of amounts of wind generation and CCGT (gas) over the last week. CCGT is the predominant (only?) means to compensate wind output fluctuations. You may be able to work out why, belatedly, gas has suddenly returned to (a bit of) favour.

Remember that the price of traded electricity surpluses is often negative theses days, so you can understand why encouraging consumption when a glut of wind is expected is worth a bash.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

And here you see the detail!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

So … me [and probably a few others] using the washing machine between 14:00 and 15:00 really made a difference.

A butterfly flapping its wings … etc.

MichaelG.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

Possibly an awful lot of butterflies, and best not cabbage whites.

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

“It may be that someone’s modelling has identified that period as one where the combination of solar (very sunny) and wind force is going to produce lots of excess electricity. The price to Octopus may well go negative in those periods. To avoid constraint payments they may have decided to try and boost consumption”

This is similar to the situation in France we have been warned about.

Namely- our current fixed tariff times of peak 06.00 to 22.00 and off peak of 22.01 to 06.00 will be changed to off peak hours in the afternoon and evening during the summer – as yet unspecified.

Who needs an off peak power tariff in the afternoon?

The majority of power users are at work in the pm.

Because there is too much solar output during the day in the summer that EDF don’t know what to do with (constraint payments?)

So why did they build it in the first place?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The whole wind/solar idea seemed great on paper to the uninitiated but is in reality an uncontrollable monster. I have observed several big wind turbine farms all idle during the hot sunny spell we have been having, at least you can feather the blades ! Tidal is at least largely predictable !  Noel.

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