‘Modifications’ banned

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 11/04/2016 14:52:56:

Posted by David Colwill on 11/04/2016 12:37:50:

No doubt the rest of Europe will ignore it, Britain however, will employ 2000 civil servants to enforce it!

David

Fine body of men, when was the last time you had to bribe a British public servant!

Excessive employment of civil servants is a popular misconception. About 400,000 civil service jobs have gone since 1975. These people weren't doing nothing, their work was transferred to the private sector and it is still being paid for by the taxpayer.

Privatisation often worked well, but there are plenty of examples were services were disrupted, standards dropped, and costs increased.

If a real civil servant is giving you a hard time remember they don't make the rules: they are obliged to implement government policy, even if it's stupid.

Regards,

Dave

No bribery — sorry mate but having spent my life in the building industry I can assure you that you are deluded- Say no more – nudge nudge , wink wink!!

Granted privatisation has not always worked, but can you assure me that standards were not on the downward slope anyway.

As for hard time- have you ever tried getting planning permission when the officer responsible for your application is always taking time off to claim the early retirement or compensation on trumped up grounds of stress etc or some other totally false con

Standards in our local authority town halls is pathetic- If you want Friday off, just start coughing on Monday & play the sickie.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Nigel B on 11/04/2016 18:23:21:

2 strokes and no legislation to set what the makers have to do. There should be but the manufacturers probably just said no way. That's how it works.

What a load of tosh ! Sorry to be blunt, but that statement beggars belief.

Vehicle rules & regulations are regularly updated ( a new set come in next year, which will end the life of some models) & manufacturers have to comply if they wish to sell – light motorcycles & scooters are no different to any other vehicle (from electrically assisted bicycles upwards) in this regard and have been for decades.

As supplied, all motorcycles have to meet (increasingly stringent) noise legislation – the "problem" is that anyone can sell an un-approved "not for road use" noise box to the young and gullible, knowing full well that there is insufficient roads policing to apprehend the users of these illegally modified vehicles. And should the antisocial barstewards actually be apprehended, there is no comeback on the sellers of the non-compliant parts who hide behind the "we sell these bits for show bikes only" excuse.

Nigel B

The noisy 'cans' still fail the construction and use for aftermarket exhaust and the MOT should weed them out.

assuming they ever get tested of course

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Nigel B on 11/04/2016 18:23:21:

2 strokes and no legislation to set what the makers have to do. There should be but the manufacturers probably just said no way. That's how it works.

What a load of tosh ! Sorry to be blunt, but that statement beggars belief.

Vehicle rules & regulations are regularly updated ( a new set come in next year, which will end the life of some models) & manufacturers have to comply if they wish to sell – light motorcycles & scooters are no different to any other vehicle (from electrically assisted bicycles upwards) in this regard and have been for decades.

Nigel B

I'm sure you are correct. I know nothing what so ever about what goes on having worked for the motor industry for 40 years.

John

–

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Well having OWNED a commercial vehicle garage, not worked at one, and been closely associated with the ministry as regards testing since it first came out I fully agree and endorse what Dave says.

After all when it's your living and your shilling on the line you do take note.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

The noisy 'cans' still fail the construction and use for aftermarket exhaust and the MOT should weed them out.

The C & U Regs and what is tested in an MoT are somewhat different. It is possible to get an MoT pass on a bike that doesn't meet C & U – MoT checks you have a speedo fitted if required by age and/or capacity, for example, but doesn't check that it works, which C& U requires & which specifies the required accuracy for the functioning instrument. Same with exhausts – unless it is overtly marked "Not for Road use" or similar, the MoT only checks that an exhaust is securely fitted & not rotted through. It is quite possible to get an MoT without starting the engine & there is no noise meter test. There is a current "fad" in motorcycle customising known as "bobbers" or "brat bikes" – basically strip off most of the legally required bits like mud & chain guards, fit oversize "ballon" tyres, minimalist lights etc. to get a "look". These abominations are frequently sold "with MoT", as the MoT only checks that mud & chain guards, if fitted, are not going to fall off or maim pedestrians. It is C & U that states that mud & chain guards are required to use the vehicle on the road.

C & U infringements require the Police or VOSA (or whatever it's current name is) to get involved.

Which brings us back to the "no modifications" bit – if our MoT was similar to the German TuV test, there would be a specific requirement for Johnny Moped to have a "Certificate of Conformity" for his non-standard exhaust or he would automatically fail the MoT. Same would apply to tampering with the standard or aftermarket exhaust – automatic fail.

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 11/04/2016 20:02:40:

I believe that the Building regulations are an excellent set of documents. It is only wallies who get the hump about having to comply that do not like them. If I were going to purchase a home I would like to know that t was built to a certain standard & not some cobble up by some know all DIY muppet. I would also like to know that I was not living in a tinderbox that might burn or electrocute my kids. I know accidents still happen but not through fault of the building regs. They have improved standards over the years

Hmmm – They're obviously working… **LINK**

My gripe is really only with Part P. It is only this part which prevents otherwise perfectly safe work being conducted by competent but "unqualified" people.

Jon

[modeng2000Participant @modeng2000]

Thinking about Part P, I have had a kitchen refit that entailed some rewiring. This happened about a couple of years ago. Since then I have found one case of the washing machine isolator switch wiring causing the RCD to trip randomly. Inspection showed that one of the live ring main wires was not secured correctly. Since then there have been no further nuisance tripping due to this fault. Then there was a fishy type smell that took a while to locate. It turned out to be the insulation on the live connection to the dish washer isolator overheating. Again because of a high resistant connection. Fortunately it was discovered by noticing the isolating switch had become quite warm.

And finally, up to now, I thought it would be a good idea to do a general inspection of the house wiring in the areas that had been previously worked on and then I found that only one of the kitchen ring main live wires was terminated in the consumer unit, the other one was just loose, not connected at all.

So much for so-called proficient Part P registered electricians.

John

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

We should to be careful what we wish for, a modifications ban is the thin end of the wedge, I think you will find its the big manufacturer's lobbying to get all cars etc bonnet sealed in order to lock you into them for servicing, plus they want rid of the second hand car market, and you in debt……

A motorcycle can have a daytime MOT in which case no lights are required other than a brake light.

As a far as Bobber's are concerned, I agree some look ridiculous…… but no less ridiculous than an old dude on a puffer train… but I'm a selfish &*&&8 so Id ban everything….. just in case……

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by modeng2000 on 12/04/2016 09:21:46:

Thinking about Part P, …

So much for so-called proficient Part P registered electricians.

John

Yes, but don't worry it's registered, there is a paper-trail and it probably cost you a sight more than it would have done before Part P came into force for the same work done to the same standard

Jon

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

John Gibbs, you beat me to it. Building regulations are obviously working well in Scotland! Aided, no doubt, by Edinburgh City Council, which always appears to be in self-destruct mode.

[modeng2000Participant @modeng2000]

Yes the work was registered, competance certification is not worth much it seems.

john.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The problem mentioned about getting shunted in the rear end in a car fitted with a tow bar can be over come if you follow the Australian regs. Wnen not towing a trailer, the tow bar is required to be removed. This is simply done by pulling a pin, take of the protruding part of the tow bar, and stick it in the boot.

Ian S C

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Ian,

That is one thing I will not be doing, it keeps all those too close parkers off my back.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Years ago I used to own a Mini pick-up. Nice vehicle for it's day but tiny and you were always getting leaned on in traffic to the extent you spent more time watching the mirrors than looking forward.

On day out on a quarry site a spotted a biggish wooden crate with

DANGER EXPLOSIVES – ICI MOND DIVISION stencilled on the side.

So heaved it in the back, strapped it down and Bingo – no tail gaters until Plod got upset and asked me to remove it ????

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Some years ago a youth hit my wifes car in the rear. I had fitted a towbar the day before, the ball went thru' his radiator and oil cooler and ours was unmarked. No mention was made about the towbar, the youth gave a false name and address. Just had my van tested, just fitted with a tow bar of unknown make, did have to drill 2 holes in the floor but other fixings picked up on the makers holes. The fixings are checked, the electric socket only if a caravan socket is fitted. Don't know the logic behind that.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Jon Gibbs on 12/04/2016 08:50:36:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 11/04/2016 20:02:40:

I believe that the Building regulations are an excellent set of documents. It is only wallies who get the hump about having to comply that do not like them. If I were going to purchase a home I would like to know that t was built to a certain standard & not some cobble up by some know all DIY muppet. I would also like to know that I was not living in a tinderbox that might burn or electrocute my kids. I know accidents still happen but not through fault of the building regs. They have improved standards over the years

Hmmm – They're obviously working… **LINK**

My gripe is really only with Part P. It is only this part which prevents otherwise perfectly safe work being conducted by competent but "unqualified" people.

Jon

And who is to say that they are safe — you!!

I would also suggest that the link you show refers to a design issue not building regs issue

Sam Longley: RICS: MCIOB

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 12/04/2016 12:06:19

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by modeng2000 on 12/04/2016 09:21:46:

Thinking about Part P, I have had a kitchen refit that entailed some rewiring. This happened about a couple of years ago. Since then I have found one case of the washing machine isolator switch wiring causing the RCD to trip randomly. Inspection showed that one of the live ring main wires was not secured correctly. Since then there have been no further nuisance tripping due to this fault. Then there was a fishy type smell that took a while to locate. It turned out to be the insulation on the live connection to the dish washer isolator overheating. Again because of a high resistant connection. Fortunately it was discovered by noticing the isolating switch had become quite warm.

And finally, up to now, I thought it would be a good idea to do a general inspection of the house wiring in the areas that had been previously worked on and then I found that only one of the kitchen ring main live wires was terminated in the consumer unit, the other one was just loose, not connected at all.

So much for so-called proficient Part P registered electricians.

John

 

& were they qualified? Did you check?

& did they issue the EICR test completion cert afterwards?

My experience is that lots of the so called electricians are not actually qualified to do the work when they claim they are.

One of my clients ( does over a couple of thousand kitchens & bathrooms per year) regularly makes checks & it is surprising how many should not be doing the job & are not as they claim

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 12/04/2016 12:18:49

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 12/04/2016 12:04:28:

And who is to say that they are safe — you!!

I would also suggest that the link you show refers to a design issue not building regs issue

Sam Longley: RICS: MCIOB

I understand that the problem in Edinburgh is a lack of ties which sounds more of an execution and building regs issue to me than a design issue but I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

Jon Gibbs MIET SMIEEE

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Jon Gibbs on 12/04/2016 12:18:05:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 12/04/2016 12:04:28:

And who is to say that they are safe — you!!

I would also suggest that the link you show refers to a design issue not building regs issue

Sam Longley: RICS: MCIOB

I understand that the problem in Edinburgh is a lack of ties which sounds more of an execution and building regs issue to me than a design issue but I'll bow to your superior knowledge.

Jon Gibbs MIET SMIEEE

I may be very wrong & i confess I do not know the details of this one -so perhaps i should have withheld the unsubstantiated comment— i should have studied the facts first.

It is not unknown for such things to happen due to poor building practice rather than regulation failings. But it has to be said that the regs do help to highlight design faults at an early stage

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 12/04/2016 12:24:28

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 12/04/2016 12:16:07:

One of my clients ( does over a couple of thousand kitchens & bathrooms per year) regularly makes checks & it is surprising how many should not be doing the job & are not as they claim

My stepson fits kitchens and has had no electrical training. He regularly finds wiring faults.

Neil

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

By coincidence I havejust had an email from the Institute of building. There is an article about the schools in question & that suggests poor construction. Missing wall ties are not a failing of the building regs. rMore likely failings in site supervision– & that is an issue which will get worse as the standard of building staff coming into the industry gets lower each year

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

I built an extension some 12 years go,after paying exorbitant inspection up front, the time spent on site by the building inspector worked out dearer than a good solicitor, one inspector would not accept the position of the ventilation for the wood stove, a second inspector at final inspection queried why I located the vents in that position,he soon got told that one his lot told me to, After the 1987 storm a neighbour in the building trade said he was fitting a changeover switch for his generator did I want one as he knew a electrician on site.years afterwards when updating my electrics (before part P) !! I found that undersize tails had been fitted obviously because it was easier to fit ,though I managed to fit the correct size,how often does this happen? qualified –crap. Near me a 1970s built house was demolished to be replaced by a larger property,during demolition,although out of sight I heard an almighty crash, later speaking to the builder he told me that the house went over like pack of cards ,no wall ties had been used. I have little confidence in a lot of so called tradesmen particularly the ridiculously short so called apprenticeships . Has anyone noticed in TV programmes like "escape to the country"the number of building regulation infringements, like fire places too close to combustible items,and lack of handrails on stairs, etc etc.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Getting back to the original subject of making car modifications illegal, I've just had a thought that has brought a happy smile to my face. If it ever came in, there couldn't possibly be such a thing as a police car (all those flashing lights, two-tone horns, special radios and stuff), and the plod would be back on bikes and on foot, to the benefit of all of us!

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Mike on 12/04/2016 13:31:30:

Getting back to the original subject of making car modifications illegal, I've just had a thought that has brought a happy smile to my face. If it ever came in, there couldn't possibly be such a thing as a police car (all those flashing lights, two-tone horns, special radios and stuff), and the plod would be back on bikes and on foot, to the benefit of all of us!

Doubt it.

All the car manufacturers would do is to make a special police version of an expensive car. This would then be sold to the police at an inflated price with the poor tax or rate payer paying.

I have a feeling this is already the case.

JA

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 12/04/2016 12:36:54:

By coincidence I havejust had an email from the Institute of building. There is an article about the schools in question & that suggests poor construction. Missing wall ties are not a failing of the building regs. rMore likely failings in site supervision– & that is an issue which will get worse as the standard of building staff coming into the industry gets lower each year

I think it all depends if you're someone who feels that more and more legislation and regulation is the best way to improve anything.

Sam, you obviously feel that it is, at least in the case of Building Regs, but personally, I don't.

Without proper enforcement I think that the vast majority of the new laws and regulation just become an unnecessary burden in time and money for the conscientious law-abiding citizen, who wasn't really the target in the first place, and doesn't address the underlying problem or problems. There are numerous examples.

My point earlier on in the thread is that enthusiasm for legislation and regulation is not just a failing of EU legislators but HM Government too.

Jon

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