‘Modifications’ banned

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

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Not strictly model engineering but engineering based in general.

I know the Daily Mail is more prone than most for knee jerk sensationalism. But this story has been doing the rounds for quite a while now from several sources.

Some ( I fear) would if they had their way make it illegal to modify ANYTHING from factory spec. – Perhaps even for 'home use'

**LINK**

Nick

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

isn’t this already the case in Spain for cars? – personally I’d be very happy to see the addition of tuned exhausts banned – however you could always move to IoM where unless car is over 3 years old when imported or a self build, no check on its road-worthiness takes place for rest of its life (unless it is involved in an accident)

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by Frances IoM on 10/04/2016 21:07:17:
personally I'd be very happy to see the addition of tuned exhausts banned –

.

Noooooooooooooooooooo.!!!!!

A motorbike has got to be noisy to be a 'proper' motorbike.!

It's no use riding around unless you are scaring old ladies and running kittens over.

Nick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nick_G on 10/04/2016 20:37:56:

Some ( I fear) would if they had their way make it illegal to modify ANYTHING from factory spec. – Perhaps even for 'home use'

.

It may be for the best, Nick …

That Hoglet would have looked silly in your Honda frame.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I think this has been the case in Germany for a long time however like most things i believe there are exceptions. It applies to new cars from a date – or so I believe and that is likely to be when it was introduced. There may well be limitations on performance enhancing – rightly so really.

It makes a certain amount of sense. Take diesel cars for instance. Chips can be bought which will boost the power of the engine by rather a lot. Bang goes all of the type approval style testing that do relate to engine power in some cases. Also safety aspect – fitting down market or even some pretty expensive bucket seats that wont meet safety requirements – that was the case I heard of some time ago.

More brexit crap. There is a lot of it about.

I wonder if it will still be possible to buy an old style mini plus the correct engine block, bore it out to getting on for 1500cc, highly tune it and fit bigger wheels. End result was a mini that might well do a true 130mph.

Drive it like that for long though, maybe even once and the engine will blow up.

All it means really is that if some one wants a fast car, or bike buy one that is fast and legal – and loose your license in the UK if you often make much use of it. People on bikes are more likely to get away with it as the police realise that sometimes the only answer motorcyclists have is speed.

John

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[peak4Participant @peak4]

Here's a couple of articles to be going on with, neither from the Daily Fail;

Classic and Sports Car

Heritage Car Insurance

As someone whose newest vehicle is 1998, (Jap import Discovery) I do find it all rather concerning.

I also have a 1973 reg. Cortina based Marlin kit car, and a much modified 1974 Landrover.

Then there's the bikes, 1977 Ducati, 1979 Bonneville, 1983 Guzzi Le Mans, and a 1989 XT600, all of which are modified to a greater or lesser extent.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Nick_G on 10/04/2016 21:13:52:

Posted by Frances IoM on 10/04/2016 21:07:17:
personally I'd be very happy to see the addition of tuned exhausts banned –

.

Noooooooooooooooooooo.!!!!!

A motorbike has got to be noisy to be a 'proper' motorbike.!

It's no use riding around unless you are scaring old ladies and running kittens over.

Nick

You forgot – organ donating

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ajohnw on 10/04/2016 23:40:31:

It makes a certain amount of sense. Take diesel cars for instance. Chips can be bought which will boost the power of the engine by rather a lot. Bang goes all of the type approval style testing that do relate to engine power in some cases. Also safety aspect – fitting down market or even some pretty expensive bucket seats that wont meet safety requirements – that was the case I heard of some time ago.

If it causes that many issues then why do the police get their cars chipped

<rhetorical question>

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by peak4 on 11/04/2016 00:44:42:

Here's a couple of articles to be going on with, neither from the Daily Fail;

Classic and Sports Car

Heritage Car Insurance

As someone whose newest vehicle is 1998, (Jap import Discovery) I do find it all rather concerning.

I also have a 1973 reg. Cortina based Marlin kit car, and a much modified 1974 Landrover.

Then there's the bikes, 1977 Ducati, 1979 Bonneville, 1983 Guzzi Le Mans, and a 1989 XT600, all of which are modified to a greater or lesser extent.

More crap

"The Federation Internationale Vehicules Anciens (FIVA) has sparked widespread panic by calling for pan-European consensus on what constitutes an historic vehicle and what should be considered merely an"

Note the word calling and consensus, where does it say what they will actually do. They can't because it needs a consensus. Believe it or not that is how it generally works. There is also the interesting aspect of veto but that has been interfered with IT SEEMS by some famous brit politicians as it suited them at the time.

Actually I think there is some sense in some form of control. As a for instance I have run a diesel for a lot longer than many people. On the first one I was rather concerned when following some friends I noticed that I was travelling in a long tunnel of thick black smoke every time they put their foot down. I asked some one if mine did the same thing. It didn't. Just a puff. Then the puffs went on newer cars. These days they have started to come back again proving that their are holes in all legislation. Probably deliberate ones as that is what the manufacturers want. No more clouds of the stuff though.

This sort of thing is a big problem for the EU. Some will always disagree with what ever is done and thanks to the media that is what we generally hear about. Slanted some way or the other as that is politics. A better than usual account of how it all works

**LINK**

John

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[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

How many MOT testers would know what a classic car looked like when manufactured? another point most insurance companies regard a tow bar as a "modification" so would it be illegal to fit a tow bar under these regulations,very few are factory fitted.A roof rack would be a "modification" The quicker we leave the eu the better

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/04/2016 08:20:49:

Posted by Ajohnw on 10/04/2016 23:40:31:

It makes a certain amount of sense. Take diesel cars for instance. Chips can be bought which will boost the power of the engine by rather a lot. Bang goes all of the type approval style testing that do relate to engine power in some cases. Also safety aspect – fitting down market or even some pretty expensive bucket seats that wont meet safety requirements – that was the case I heard of some time ago.

If it causes that many issues then why do the police get their cars chipped

<rhetorical question>

Neil

Because they are such advanced drivers Neil. I mean when I pulled over to let one over a 100yds behind me with it's lights flashing etc pass it just had to be my fault that he ran into the back of my car. Fortunately there were plenty of witnesses. They tell advanced drivers travelling at speed to look well ahead – this one forgot to take account of things that were a bit nearer. I measured it – had just short of 2 car widths to get past.

John

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[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 11/04/2016 09:49:52:

… most insurance companies regard a tow bar as a "modification" so would it be illegal to fit a tow bar under these regulations,very few are factory fitted.

.

It would probably become illegal to fit an 'aftermarket' one, but O.K. to have the manufacturer's 'Type Approved' one retro-fitted.

We do need to make some allowance for Daily Mail hysteria.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/04/2016 09:59:32:

Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 11/04/2016 09:49:52:

… most insurance companies regard a tow bar as a "modification" so would it be illegal to fit a tow bar under these regulations,very few are factory fitted.

.

It would probably become illegal to fit an 'aftermarket' one, but O.K. to have the manufacturer's 'Type Approved' one retro-fitted.

We do need to make some allowance for Daily Mail hysteria.

MichaelG.

That would put a lot of people out of business Michael – if it happened it would be must fit an approved one. Good excuse for a price increase. The only problem really but who wants a defectively designed tow bar attached to the wrong parts of the car?

I get the general impression that a lot of people do not take account of the "hysteria". I'd be inclined to use another phrase.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 11/04/2016 10:12:38

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Towbars have had to be "Type Approved" since 2013 IIRC. This hasn't put independant towbar manufacturers out of business, it just means that their products have to be put through a testing process (2 million full rated load stress cycles IIRC) to certify that they are "fit for purpose". Vehicle manufacturers have had to disclose their towbar mounting points for longer – the days of having to drill through the vehicle structure to fit a towbar are very long gone, now it is just a case of pulling the sealing tapes off the pre-prepared fixing points & bolting the type-approved bar straight on. Towbar prices don't seem to have gone through the roof since this requirement was introduced & my insurance didn't increase when I fitted one to my last car.

I have recently fitted an aftermarket screen to my bike – it came with a booklet in all European languages certifying it's suitability and approval details. In German this is the "ABE" – if my bike were registed in Germany, at the time of the TUV test (Mot) I would take this ABE certificate to the test to prove that the "modification" was approved. The same applies to other "modifications" like after market exhausts, luggage systems etc. No problem & not something to get overly worked up about ?

Nigel B

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ajohnw on 11/04/2016 10:02:50:

… "hysteria". I'd be inclined to use another phrase.

.

I'm interested to know what you would use, John.

… Check the definition of 'hysteria' first.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/04/2016 10:51:37:

Posted by Ajohnw on 11/04/2016 10:02:50:

… "hysteria". I'd be inclined to use another phrase.

.

I'm interested to know what you would use, John.

… Check the definition of 'hysteria' first.

MichaelG.

Ok The definition

noun

1. 1.

   exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement.

   "the anti-Semitic hysteria of the 1890s"

   synonyms:

   frenzy, wildness, feverishness, irrationality;More

2. 2.

   an old-fashioned term for a psychological disorder characterized by conversion of psychological stress into physical symptoms (somatization) or a change in self-awareness (such as a fugue state or selective amnesia).

Just where does it mention deliberately behaving that way, especially in respect to hoping to sell more papers, or even to get people to watch more TV news in some cases or even to make debates of one sort or another more "interesting".

John

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[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Typical anti-EU rant from the Daily Hell, aimed at stoking up all the old duffers. They must be loving it – and all very handy timing given the forthcoming referendum. Jeremy Vine will have his work cut out today once they've finished "reading" it and necked all their medication.

Slightly more objective reporting here.

Relax.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

The big black headlines of a dramatic “news” item couched in the choice of words likely to create the fear factor is what helps sell newspapers. AIDA = Attention, Interest, Desire, Action.

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

Insurance Co's also seem very interested in modifications, after reading an article on the web about it I rang my Insurer, Liverpool Victoria, I now have an addition to my policy listing 'reversing sensors' as a modification even though they were fitted by the main agent before the car had even been on the road.

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Of course our own domestic politicians, the folks the DM would have solely in charge one presumes, would be completely immune from coming up with such ludicrous policies

Building Regulations Part P?

Jon

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

So only an "approved" manufacturer could be considered "orthodox"? sounds like another law dreamt up for the purposes of walking on the little man.

Aside from this opinion, the practicality of policing this seems unfair, there are far more worthy causes to be chasing and could you really label someone a "criminal" for modifying something they legally obtained? Just doesn't seem like you could get anyone to agree on what constitutes a mod anyway. This could get into silly territory, does the air freshener on the dash or the repair to one of the hinges on the glove box mean i'm now "modifying" this?

This is what the M.O.T was designed to cater for anyway. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 11/04/2016 11:50:47

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Muzzer on 11/04/2016 11:12:23:

Typical anti-EU rant from the Daily Hell, aimed at stoking up all the old duffers. They must be loving it – and all very handy timing given the forthcoming referendum. Jeremy Vine will have his work cut out today once they've finished "reading" it and necked all their medication.

Slightly more objective reporting here.

Relax.

Why do so many people run down the Daily Mail. Discounting the Sun – which is after all just a comic- the Daily Mail has the country's highest circulation. So something it does must suit the population. Or do those that berate the DM think that the entire population has less sense than them?

I like it by the way!!

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

I seem to remember this being talked about some years ago but nothing came of it.
Mark P.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

No doubt the rest of Europe will ignore it, Britain however, will employ 2000 civil servants to enforce it!

David

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