Milling machines – western-made s/h recommendations up to £2k

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Just the way it is, metric is the norm now, imperial will be like Latin soon, used by purists in their home workshops, most of world learned English because it made it easier for everyone to communicate, I see metric as a similar undertaking.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Hi William. I have skipped a few pages but i have the Tom Senior light vertical. Love it, They have 16+ inches of knee travel. I have powered mine. I think around 3" of quill travel with fine feed. The table is a 28 1/2" long. I think they weigh in at 370Kg from memory. MT2 spindle which some say is small but i have used it a lot & never had a problem with any kind of vibration from it. I think it was £1500 when bought 2 years ago, complete with a full 3 axis Mdro fitted & inverter. . Double that though with tooling & mods done to it. Would i swap it. Not a chance. Beautifully made machine. Of course i would say that wouldn't I. Hope you find what you are looking for. I have plenty of youtube video's using the mill . One shows me using a 65mm face cutter with no issues.

Steve.

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Hi Steviegtr – I see you have the S-type quill head which I gather is a totally different kettle of fish to the knuckle head when it comes to utility. Were the M1 Im' looking at to have one I would snap it up immediately – but without, it's much more difficult to justify.

I guess I'll just have to keep my eyes open for a TS M1 with an S-type head or Centec 2B with a quill head – that seems to be the sweet spot?

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

There's an imperial Myford VMC for your budget available now on ebay Myford mill

Looks to be good condition.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If a metric machine otherwise fits the bill just put a DRO on it, expect you will end up doing that to an imperial one anyway. If you can't afford the DRO straight away calculators are quite cheap.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

With reference to the opening post: Why do you think machine tools that are built in China are junk? Personally, I don't believe they are and if it came to changing my old British built mills, a Harrison M1 and a Tom Senior, both of which are now well worn and irreplaceable by an indigenous product, I would have no hesitation in buying a far-eastern machine. I acquired my machines at a time when manufacturing industry was collapsing and the school curriculum was changing meaning these things were auctioned off for what amounted to 'peanuts' at the time. For example, I once acquired a Brown & Sharp No.13 universal cylindrical grinder with all the best collets and chucks money could buy at that time for £50, but it cost me £250 to get it shipped home!

You have to accept that old British machine tools, although nice to have if in well restored condition, which I would suggest is very few and far between these days, will continue to deteriorate as they go on to pass between owners over the years. Considering the cost of 'continental' machines which are still manufactured against their 'Chinese' counterparts which you can go and inspect at such as Axminster or Warco, the type of which even Myford re-badged, for my budget and for use in a back-shed workshop the choice would be a total no-brainer.

Edited By Chris Crew on 30/06/2021 08:44:43

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

The Myford looks a good buy & comes with power feed [not fitted], as always condition, condition, condition is the most important factor! I bought a Myford VME some 15 years ago nearly new for £1500 & fitted a VFD, DRO & power feed, I'm very pleased with it.

Tony

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Metric/imperial? 1" = 25.4mm what's the problem? What you're going to make determines the size of machinery to achieve this, AND the size of workshop to house them. My V10 with vertical head is more than adequate for my needs, won't cater for a 4" Burrel but I don't want to make one. Don't be drawn into the machine snobbery clique, take a long look at what you want to achieve and make your choice. If you have a dicky back, DON'T look at the Omnimill, you have to bend down to switch it on and off, even as an apprentice (decades ago) it was a pain in the back although a good versatile machine to use. Blidgeports, great (sorry Sir John, I can hear you screaming BEAVER) worked on one for years in the toolroom, had chance to buy a well looked after example BUT would have needed a power bulge in the garage roof to cater for the motor.

Look at NEEDS not WANTS.

Regards Ian.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Talking of needs your 5" loco cylinder may be better bored on your Myford anyway. A between ctrs boring bar and the lathe's power feed will likely give a better finish and truer bore than hand feeding a more flexible tool on a mill.

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Dear all, thank you so much for your replies.

re: Metric (Circlip, JasonB) – All of eveything I'm building is in imperial, so I would prefer to not have that extra step every single time I want to measure something. As stated initially, I'm not interested in a DRO at this point – although I may be convinced in future.

re: Newer/import machines (Chris Crew, Pete B.) – I am just not interested in a modern machine right now – not to mention I cannot find any new machines with an R8 taper, imperial dials. I don't want plastic, LCD screens, CNC, computer control, etc. at ALL. I deal with high-tech all day every day and probably will do until I retire – the last thing I want is to have it as part of my hobby. As per one of my first posts:

My aversion to chinese equipment is not because I think the quality would be bad, but rather because I don't want to support the export of labour to third world countries, nor the shipping process or the unscrupulous business practises of that part of the world. There (I would have thought) are enough milling machines in the UK that can do good service without having to buy something from Shenzen.

re: Usability (circlip) – one of the reasons I'm not after a Centec 2A is the knee handle being at the back corner!

I've enquired about the Myford VMC for the sake of completeness.

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Re: Needs – what's the best way to frame my requirements?

I would like to have the capacity to reliably build 5" gauge locos and maybe 2" scale traction engines as well as sundry stationary engines – nothing ginormous, and nothing with jet engine precision.

I believe I am already fully equipped for the immediate future of 2-1/2" Gauge loco building – so there's no great rush.

[Earny49Participant @earny49]

Harrison Verticals which I have seen have a slightly longer table travel of 18” rather than the 15.5” of the horizontals. I wouldn’t want to try boring a 5” gauge cylinder on the vertical milling head / machine. Harrison verticals usually have higher spindle speeds more suited to smaller cutters. Both versions are really sturdy machines but some ex school machines can have suffered some abuse / may be worn.

With regard to capacity, have a look at my articles on cylinder boring in recent Model Engineer magazines back in April this year ( sorry, I can’t give exact issue numbers as I am away from home at present.

[Earny49Participant @earny49]

Should have added to my previous post that my machine is a Horizontal with vertical head

Also agree that, if you can budget for DRO you need not worry if machine is metric or imperial

[Frank GorseParticipant @frankgorse]

William,I’m sending you a pm

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Hi Earny49 – if the articles are those which I think, it is you who inspired me to look at vertical/horizontal mill combos in the first place!

I am sure I will be converted to a DRO fanatic in due course, but the truth as they say, is just a maxim until it is felt upon your own pulse.

[Anonymous]

Posted by William Ayerst on 30/06/2021 12:32:27:

……I'm not interested in a DRO at this point……….

Madness – the DRO on my vertical mill is by far the most useful workshop item I've ever bought.

Andrew

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

And remember a DRO is not just about easy metric/imperial conversion, it will save you having to worry about backlash in a worn 40+ year old machine and that's even before you start using things like PCD functons. Though what you will pay for an non far eastern made one is another matter!

As for finding second hand UK and EU machines with R8 taper that may be a bit limiting. They have only become popular on hobby size machines in recent years as the much larger US market prefers them to MT due to their being very common due to Bridgeports using that taper so the UK machines are tending to have them more and more.

Don't rule out INT/ISO taper as that's good too.

Edited By JasonB on 30/06/2021 15:12:31

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

+1 for Jason's post. I would not be without the mill DRO. + yes my 40+ yr old machine has backlash, but does not matter with the readout.

Steve.

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already but it would be worth checking out Facebook Marketplace and Gumtree for secondhand machinery, as well as Ebay – these are becoming more popular with private sellers because unlike Ebay there are no selling fees…

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Thank you – my partner has broken her ankle and as such I have to sit on my hands for a bit. A kind gent has contacted me about a Centec 2B with a quill feed – but we need to figure out how to make delivery work…

I heard back about the VMC – The gent has advised it's in good nick, no marks, etc. and single phase. – I don't really hear much about them so are there any other idiosyncrasies I should be aware of before I take things further? I can find very little other than the lathes co uk info and nothing much at all about performance/limitations/benefits/drawbacks?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Myford milling machines imported from far east and 'fettled' by Myford?

That one in the link doesn't look to have fine downfeed on quill, which limits it's usefulness a bit.

And you will want a DRO, they make it so much easier. Hands up who hasn't lost count when doing a long traverse

Edited By duncan webster on 30/06/2021 23:56:29

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Yep, made in Taiwan, I've seen them go for over the odds, I wonder if the Myfordphiliacs who paid over the odds knew this? it was on the want list of William so I shared it with him.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I still think the Tom Senior is better than the mills mentioned. If you can find a light vertical in good nick i would go for it. The one i originally wanted was the Seig sx3.5 with all the bells & whistles, But ARC eurotrade was not ready to sell me one . So i went for a UK made machine.

Steve.

[William AyerstParticipant @williamayerst55662]

Steviegtr, the quill head Tom Senior's are like rocking-horse poop it seems, not even a sniff of one except one going for >£3500 on eBay at the moment. Is it worth picking up the one I mentioned that was in good nick band keeping an eye out for the quill head in future?

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I realise that they are very rare. With that i cannot advise William. I guess i just got lucky.

From memory i did spend quite a few months trolling around before finding mine on Ebay.

Not sure but someone told me that Tom Senior were taken over by Denford.

Steve.

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