Lathe advice please

[Steve Williams 8Participant @stevewilliams8]

[Steve Williams 8Participant @stevewilliams8]

Good morning, I am new to the forum and look forward to reading all the posts and information you have. I am a blacksmith by trade and repair shotguns and rifles (legally) too. I am looking for a lathe which is capable of screw cutting and has a spindle diameter of at least 35mm. Would you mind advising me of the type of machine I should be looking for?

Kind regards

Steve

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Steve is that internal or external diameter (I'm assuming internal, although that's quite big)?

What sort of between centres distance and are you likely to prefer new or secondhand?

Neil

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Without the first question answered i'm taking a bit of a shot in the dark here but I think for a reasonably priced, import new lathe i'd try warco.

If you have experience buying from the far east then you could probably get one even cheaper by buying direct from china, unlabelled of course.

Michael W

[Steve Williams 8Participant @stevewilliams8]

Hi Neil and Michael, I would like the internal shaft diameter to be around 35mm as that will cater for a rifle barrel at the chamber end if required. At least 30" between centres would be good. I would like a used British machine, I repair old British guns, they are the best in the world. I don't even eat Chinese food but thanks for your advice Michael.

Kind regards

Steve

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Steve I don't know where you live but the local machine sales has some ex collage lathes, Colchester Students, in which would possibly do what you want. It is Premier Machine Tools Blidworth Nottinghamshire. I am not connected to the company in any way but its worth looking at.

David

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Steve,

I was going to suggest a Colchester Chipmaster … but they're a mere 20" between centres

The Master 2500 long bed would meet your spec. **LINK**

http://www.lathes.co.uk/colchester/page17.html

… it's a big, expensive, machine though !!

[My Dad ordered one of the first few, when he set-up a workshop at Lancaster University]

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I assume the OP means 35mm clear bore too. However ?

If so maybe a modern Boxford with a bed length to suit or even a TS if extreme alignment accuracy is needed.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 21/01/2017 19:40:03

[Anonymous]

Or a Harrison M300 long bed, but they're not cheap.

Andrew

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I have a Taiwanese copy of a Harrison M300. 14" swing and 40" between centres with a 40mm spindle bore, over 20 years old now and still does all I ask of it. I ruled out some good British lathes like Colchester students as some I looked at only had 1" or 1 1/4" spindle bore. Good luck with the search, let us know how you get on.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ajohnw on 21/01/2017 19:38:09:

I assume the OP means 35mm clear bore too..

.

A reasonable assumption, John … given that Steve pretty-much confirmed that ^^^

MichaelG.

.

[quote]

… I would like the internal shaft diameter to be around 35mm as that will cater for a rifle barrel at the chamber end if required. At least 30" between centres would be good. I would like a used British machine, …

[/quote]

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Harrison M250.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Ajohnw on 21/01/2017 19:38:09:

I assume the OP means 35mm clear bore too. However ?

If so maybe a modern Boxford with a bed length to suit or even a TS if extreme alignment accuracy is needed.

Why go with the training lathe if more accuracy is required, its the TR toolroom one that is the better spec as I have said to you before

[Phil SParticipant @phils66830]

I will be listing a 7" Drummond (14" swing) shortly in the classifieds. There was an article in the ME some time ago about a Bath gunsmith who used one of these. It is of course only a few years off being an antique so does not meet the machinery directive if you are a business !

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I said TS if extreme alignment accuracy is needed Jason. There is a fair difference in price and several different specs of the other as well some of which would probably gobble up some of the differences. As I understand it TS means toolroom spec and the main difference apart from gearbox options that by the look of it can be applied to all of them is high precision bearings. On these models if screw cutting is needed it's best to note that there are options. Some need way more change wheels than others. I haven't seen an imperial version of this machine and that aspect might be important for easier screw cutting.

I think the cam lock VSL would meet the spindle bore needs as well. Lathe co uk should clear that up. The earlier one probably doesn't.

MG might note that the bore aspect was mentioned after I started to post. I went away for a while just after starting it. Not that an unusual thing for me to do.

Perhaps I have the TS wrong. I'd need to check.

John

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[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just read what I wrote above, twerp

"its the TR toolroom one that is the better spec"

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by JasonB on 21/01/2017 20:42:00:

Just read what I wrote above, twerp

"its the TR toolroom one that is the better spec"

Bit of a waste of time posting that.

Actually I was being a bit tongue in the cheek when I posted that one, thinking new and added the VSL as an after thought.

Really with questions like this size of work, budget and use is needed, Given that there will be a number of machines that would suite including many that wont even get a mention in real terms generally condition and if the accessories that may be needed are likely to be obtainable are the most important aspects. Also the fact that some machines that are available might come with all of them.

In this case imperial based screw cutting might be a good idea as well.

Having shot a number of different types and ages I'm curious about which guns?

John

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[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ajohnw on 21/01/2017 20:36:31:

MG might note that the bore aspect was mentioned after I started to post. I went away for a while just after starting it. Not that an unusual thing for me to do.

.

Happy to believe you, John … but remember:

I can't see when you started to post; only when you posted.

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 21/01/2017 21:50:41:

Posted by Ajohnw on 21/01/2017 20:36:31:

MG might note that the bore aspect was mentioned after I started to post. I went away for a while just after starting it. Not that an unusual thing for me to do.

.

Happy to believe you, John … but remember:

I can't see when you started to post; only when you posted.

MichaelG.

I know Michael but it's something worth bearing in mind. Rather extreme but I have even gone out for a while mid post. Unlike some seem to think at times I don't spend all day sitting at this machine. There are certain times of the day when I have a look around but the time spent on here is extremely variable.

John

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[John BromleyParticipant @johnbromley78794]

My suggestion would be a Colchester Triumph 2000, a nice big chunky beast, lots of distance between centres and a comprehensive and easy to use threading gearbox. I use one most days at work. They are a nice machine capable of repeatable precision work, with capacity to do some larger work. I think the through bore is about 3" maybe just less.

John

I just checked it's 55.5mm bore. The short bed model is 30" and the long bed is 50" between centres.

Edited By John Bromley on 21/01/2017 22:06:35

Edited By John Bromley on 21/01/2017 22:15:18

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The Colchester Triumph is a BIG lathe, one would effectively fill my workshop, I think!

Once you are past 'bench lathe' size secondhand prices don't go up as much as you might expect, presumably because there's much less demand.

Prices seem to start at around £3k up to £7k, I imagine good cheap ones will go relatively fast.

Your probably talking about £3K for an imported lathe of slightly smaller overall size but the capacity you need (38mm bore, 910mm between centres). If the latter you would would be looking at what could be described better as 'small industrial' rather than 'large hobby' lathes so probably just Warco & Chester to look at from the 'usual suspects'.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Steve Williams 8 on 21/01/2017 10:06:20:

Good morning, I am new to the forum and look forward to reading all the posts and information you have. I am a blacksmith by trade and repair shotguns and rifles (legally) too. I am looking for a lathe which is capable of screw cutting and has a spindle diameter of at least 35mm. Would you mind advising me of the type of machine I should be looking for?

Kind regards

Steve

This lathe is quite popular with gunsmiths in the USA **LINK**. It has all the features that you mentioned.

* Danny M *

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

If only I could afford one. Couple of things, can't cut 19tpi (small BSP threads) and BA threads without extra gears, Quick change tool post 1100euros ?? To tool it up would probably double up the price of the lathe, but apart form that, I would swap my Boxford tomorrow.
BobH

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Colchester master good lathe ,long bed model takes 40 inch between centres ,1.625 ins spindle bore,good screw cutting range, with one extra gear it can do DP worms.ideal lathe for gunsmithing,you can earn a living with the Master. until recently I had a master and a triumph,both good lathes,the triumph can cope with lots of varied work but the master is the better lathe for smaller work,the triumph can be a little clumsy ,the chucks are heavy and the tailstock takes a lot of pushing down the bed,regarding accuracy their performance is the same, The triumph departed last month as I soon have to downsize my home and the triumph gets to be hard work when you get well past retirement.Currently making a saddle /cross slide mounted 4 morse taper attachment so that I can still use the large drills that I used on the triumph,plus the capability of power feeding the drills.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The Boxford VSL nearly gets there. 1 3/8" bore but 28" between centres. The big bore versions are usually fitted with a tapered spindle nose arrangement that is rather nice to use but it can be hard / expensive to find chucks etc to fit to it so one with chucks is the best answer. They do crop up now and again but do read their page on lathes.co.uk. They also have a knack of turning up ex workshop rather than places where the lathe may have been used all day every day for long periods. I think there is also a cam lock version but not totally sure. With this one you wont have centre heights that are probably well over what you need. It weighs about 300kg.

I suspect the OP's best bet is to see what's around and what equipment they come with and hopefully go and look and try them under power. Given the devious nature of one dealer I once bought a lathe off I usually take a decent tool and piece of metal with me. That type might be rare. Not sure. One produced an awful piece of metal and an even worse tool and claimed that they had nothing better.

There are lots of Harrisons and Colchesters about but other makes can turn up as well. This page can sometimes provide further information about them.

**LINK**

However talking not that much post WWII I know for a fact it's not entirely up to date. It would be difficult to keep track of all models some manufactures made as in some cases huge numbers were not sold. Colchester sold lots.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 22/01/2017 18:43:38

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