I dont think its 3phase but what is it ?!

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Gents, connected with my thoughts and questions as to how to power my J & S 540, it suddenly occurred to me this evening that since my house was originally an industrial building, it may already have a 3 phase supply. A quick check of the meter cupboard suggested not.

But then I saw a separate galvanised box on the wall with 3 big cables going into it. Could these be the other phases, just terminated I wondered …..

I took the cover off and found this,,,,

The first thing to occur to me was that the cover has no seal – hardly suitable for an outside junction box. But what were all the wires ? I didnt want to pull them all out as it looked pretty fragile. What I could see though was that the cable entering on the righhand side is comprised of thick cored red-sheathed wide and a thick black sheathed wire only. These go into the two screwed connectors wrapped up in blue and brown tape. After that I could not make out where they go but they 'may' go off to the left hand cable. This 'might' be a connection to my garage consumer unit but without untangling the mess I cant be sure.

Filling the rest of the space in the box is what looks like telephone wiring which appears to come from the central black cable, Some of this 'telephone wiring appears to disappear into the wall behind. The strange thing is there is already a telephone junction box just to the left of this one. I mystified.

To me this looks wrong on a number of many levels – unsealed, mixed wire sizes, crammed in like sardines… even the cover lip has been bent to help it accommodate the thick cable sheathing on the right side.

I think I need to get this investigated and tidied up. Your thoughts ?

Gerry

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Gerry, don't take the cover off the GAS meter box – you wouldn't sleep at night if the same DIYer has meddled inside that one !!

Its interesting the comparison between the size of the mains incoming cable to the house that is so much smaller than the pigtails from the company fuses to the meter.

The last photo of the mix of telephone and mains cable – Oh dear! I hope you don't use a wired telephone in the workshop. Also that the telephone wiring in the house which feeds that box has been or should be disconnected.

Bob

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That’s the stuff of nightmares, Gerry …

Even the ghost in the blue tape looks frightened.

MichaelG.

.

.

Edit: There does at least appear to be some troubleshooting advice available from Solar iBoost:

https://www.marlec.co.uk/troubleshootmysolariboost/

… but I think the galvanised box is a case of don’t start from here

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/09/2021 08:10:03

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

The grey cable lower left is a CAT5 data cable with the four twisted pairs separated out from it. The rest is just frightening I hope it's not live. Urgent visit from electrician probably required.

John

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I don't think the iBoost will have anything to do with it. I's battery powered, and links to the immersion controller via Zigbee wirless. Current clamp around the live, also isolated from the mains.

As a matter of interest, how many times have you had to replace the Solar iBoost controller at the immersion end? I'm on my third, but has been going for 18 months so I think they must have sorted the bug now!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Haine on 11/09/2021 08:34:59:

I don't think the iBoost will have anything to do with it. I's battery powered, and links to the immersion controller via Zigbee wirless. Current clamp around the live, also isolated from the mains.

.

I did’t think it would, John … I was merely proffering one small ray of comfort !

Some indication of who installed the ‘solar’ might, however, lead Gerry to identifying the perpetrator.

MighaelG.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

IS IT A TEST POINT FOR MULTIMETERS ? Noel.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

At a guess it a network and power feed to a shed or garage. Whatever it is it is WRONG.

1/ Box should be sealed.
2/ Data and power should be separate.
3/ Choc blocks are not OK for data or for poer in an unsealed box.
4/ wrapping choc block in tape just traps any water that may get in making it worse than without tape.

You need to get that looked at by someonewho is competent and has cable tracing equipment.

Robert G8RPI.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

I think the answer lies in the previous industrial use of the building, the telephone wires are for an upgraded telephone connection to the telephone network which probably allows a number of incoming lines operating simultaneously. The other telephone cable junction box is for a single domestic telephone connection. I would be very careful of the two large cables that have connectors wrapped in insulating tape this seems to indicate that they may carry some voltage with possible lethal results. I would follow John’s advice and get a qualified electrician to look at it. Dave W

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Your meter box is a standard single phase incoming cable and meter box. The supply is the PME (protective multiple earth) configuration. The adaptable box horror show does really need sorting out and determining if it is in current use. You may find one end of the cables at your consumer unit and the other in your outbuilding. If the twisted pair cables are part of a telephone or network system then they really should be separated from the mains cables if that is what they are. Try to resist the temptation to replace the lid and forget about it.

Mike

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

There is no easy way out on this, it looks a bit like a 3-phase with one phase taken off, which would be a common thing if there had once been a 3 phase supply, but the electricity board would never leave it like that.

I suggest you get the rest of the system checked too. It won't cost much related to the risks.

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Also the meter and cutout are unsealed, suggesting someone has been tampering with them. I would contact your supply company before they think you have removed them.

Both should be sealed with the supply authorities seal to prevent tampering.

As others have said, get the mess in the box sorted asap.

Ian

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Can one still get "mains tester" screwdrivers with a neon that can safely show if a conductor is live? Could be worth checking if there are actually any voltages on those conductors before spending money on an electrician…

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

I might use a neon screwdriver on the exposed chocolate blocks, but a non-contact tester like these saves unwrapping the others (and perhaps releasing the ghost?). Personally I would still be unhappy even if the wires aren't live unless I knew where the other end was so I could be sure they couldn't accidentally be made live by a neighbour who one day thinks "I wonder what this switch does?".

Brian G

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Well, if they are currently live then you know there's a problem. If they aren't, then cut off most of the wires and carefull insulate them so if the neighbour does switch something on it doesn't matter. Or of course short 'em together…maybe not!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

The exterior box seems to be an extreme bodge! Maybe the picture is misleading but it appears:

1. The green ellipse shows the data cable pairs are shorted together at the choc block , converting an 8-core into a 4-core cable.
2. One side of the data cable appears to be cut off inside the box – see red circle in photo
3. The choc block appears to show the three of the 4-ways are connected to Earth, and Neutral. The live wire inside the Brown Circle seems to have come out of the choc bloc, and may be dangling.

I guess the wiring is all mains and a naughty bodger has substituted data cable for 4-core mains cable, and then forced everything into a too small interior box rather than buying a slightly larger waterproof junction box. If so pretty yuk.

Another guess: the power goes to an adjacent shed or garage, and the 4-core is for switching a light from either end of the path, a variation on this:

Might be able to confirm this by looking for similar wiring in a nearby sheds.

Dave

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

A friend of mine bought a high street shop and found that all of the telephone connections for the rest of the line of shops came to a junction box in his property – done to avoid a cabinet in the street and done in the days when the shop owners would have been cooperative.

I suspect your property once had multiple phone lines into the property and some were for an early BT internet modem which would be the size of a sewing machine and needed mains power. Possibly a small switchboard and intercom that also needed mains power.

[Phil SParticipant @phils66830]

Providing the cables are dead then this is most likely a tidy up of surplus cables. I have seen a similar arrangement in the garage of a house that was for sale where it was the original builders show house and sales office. Thus there were redundant phone lines and armoured cables to exterior signage all long gone. The lack of paint around the outside of the box and on the cables might fit with this theory. Best just check for mains voltage with a known good neon tester on the terminals. If dead put the lid back on and forget it. If any live, you will need an electrician. If not confident about using a neon tester take no risks and ask an electrician.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

The non-contact testers are definitely better than the old neon testers, they can detect live cables in things like switches and power sockets just by being near them, no need to even take the screws out to check for voltage. They are also good for checking if the fuse in a plug is blown since there will be an indication of voltage at the plug but not in the wire. Audible and visual indication of the presence of a voltage as well. The only thing is that the one I have detects AC only, I don't know if they are all like that.

Martin C

[gerry maddenParticipant @gerrymadden53711]

Thanks again all respondents for your comments and good advice. This is such a useful group of experienced people always ready to help !

I 'think' I might have solved the mystery. This birds nest of a junction box is likely be a feed to the garage plus a feed to an electric gate system on the far side of a plot adjacent to my house. The latter have never been used since we moved in 8 years ago and for that reason I had completely forgotten about them! They weren't used partly because I have no need for such impediments in my life and partly because they didn't seem to function well when the builder tried to demonstrate them to us. I think we see why now The data cable/ telephone wires probably go to a control box which is on the wall inside the house. Not only have I not used this, I haven't even seen it for years due to the growth of a large plant in front of it !

One wrinkle in my theory is that when I trip the RCD for the 'outbuilding' on the consumer unit, the garage electrics are non-functional but the gates control box inside the house and the camera on the gates 100 yards away are both still functional !!! Clearly further investigations are needed to establish the the ins and outs of the junction box outside and to find a way to isolate the gate part of it.

John H, my iboost has been excellent with no trouble since it was installed just under 7 years ago. I actually had the control box installed next to my consumer unit in my in-house workshop so that I could easily keep an eye on proceedings. So far its dumped about 17MWh into the hot tank since installed. I was actually expecting to have got through a few heating elements by now but this has survived too. I suppose that shouldn't be a surprise as most of the time its operating at low power levels.

Thanks again all for your thought provoking stuff.

Gerry

[Author]

Posts