Help identifying brazing/soldering rods

[damianParticipant @damiannoble34800]

 

Hi all,

My dad recently passed away and we discussed many of the items he had. I've come to the unenviable task of working my way through the garage. Many items.

He did tell me about some rods but I cannot remember what he said about them. Here's a close up. As far as I can see they say Saffire sb made in england.

 

The only thing I can find is an old murex catalogue but no mention of SB

Any info would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Damian

 

Edited By damian noble on 29/12/2021 16:27:14

[damianParticipant @damiannoble34800]

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Only a guess but it could be silicon-bronze.

Brian

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

SAFFIRE was name BOC used and like Brian I would guess Silicon bronze. One way to get some idea would be to melt the end – the colour and how it melted would be a good clue. Are there many of them and what diameter  ? Noel.

Edited By noel shelley on 29/12/2021 17:02:45

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Safire silicon bronze rods were originally coloured blue on the end, any evidence of colour code on them? The other option is silver braze if sb is relevant, as far as I know they had no colour code. Former melts about 875 deg c latter about 740 deg c if that helps.

Paul.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Damian, SB could mean Sifbronze or even Sifbrass. It may help if you knew what your dad was likely to use them for, the scan below shows details of some filler rods from Buck & Hickman back in 1964 and if you can tell the melting point of yours, it may give you a clue, but as has been said, many of these were colour coded at one time.

Regards Nick.

[damianParticipant @damiannoble34800]

Thanks for the replies chaps,

Nick my dad was a plumber, pipefitter, welder. He had many skills when it came to joining metal.

Noel and Paul have jogged another memory and I'm sure my dad said something about blue ends but I'm not sure if these were the rods? With that I've just been to the garage for another look at them.

There it is amongst some corrosion a hint of blue. There are probably a dozen of them at at around 4mm?

[damianParticipant @damiannoble34800]

Many thanks for all the info.Wish he'd had chance to label all the oddities as it would've been a lot easier 

Edited By damian noble on 29/12/2021 19:06:10

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

They don't look like silver brazing rods. Too large and wrong colour.

They look like copper.

Only one Saffire rod contains antimony (Sb), and they would appear useful to a plumber/pipefitter:

Saffire Argofil
AWS A/SFA 5.7-77 : ER Cu
BS2901: Part 3 1990 : C7
Description and applications
Saffire Argofil is a high quality 98.5% copper filler rod for TIG welding copper, using argon as
the shielding gas.
Chemical composition (wire)
Si 0.10-0.50
M n 0.1-0.5
P 0.015 max
Ni 0.10 max
Cu 98.0 min
Sn 1.0 max
Pb 0.010 max
Al 0.01 max
Fe 0.03 max
As 0.05 max
Sb 0.005 max
Bi 0.0030 max
Rod sizes
Diameter (mm) 2.4 3.2

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

As they have Saffire written on them they should be box as it is one of their trade names and the sb is for silicon bronze for materials other than cast iron and then the rods would be marked mb for manganese bronze.

Edited By bernard towers on 29/12/2021 22:51:03

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I've dug out three Brazing rods that I have, the small one is 1/8" and has no ID on it at all, the middle one is 5mm and like Damian's, but only lightly stamped and red colour in the lettering and the lines and the big one is 1/4" an d has BRONZO stamped on it a few times along the length but there is no colouring in the letters or the lines.

These are all brazing / brass welding rods for use with gas welding / brazing equipment. I've filed a flat on the end of each end where they have been used and I can't discern any colour difference between them. These are what I have used on steel, cast iron and copper for brazing and have welded the occasional brass pieces together many years ago at work.

They were all BOC make, cause that is what the company used back then and are probably Sifbronze No 1 shown in the scan I posted earlier.

Regards Nick.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Is BOC sif bronze I thought sif was suffolk iron foundrys ! Noel

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Posted by noel shelley on 29/12/2021 23:21:16:

Is BOC sif bronze I thought sif was suffolk iron foundrys ! Noel

They were definitely Sif bronze when I was a lad ont' shipyard Noel. Used for brazing and builds rather than flows. I would think 'Suffolk Iron Foundry' (??) would be SIF.

The coloured ends certainly ring a bell but what colour refers to what type I have no recall

I too still have the odd piece of 3/16 dia – turns very well – makes nice little oilers

Tug

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Noel, you are correct that sif isn't a BOC product, I meant to say that my rods were probably equivalent to Sifbronze No. 1. I have some sifbronze flux which comes from Gipping Works in Stowmarket, Suffolk, so maybe they changed their name.

BOC flux was at one time called Unibronze and Saffire is a trade name of BOC.

Regards Nick.

P.S. Suffolk Iron Foundry Graces guide

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 30/12/2021 09:02:58

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The red tin of which I have several at least identyfies the maker of the mystery rods ! SAFFIRE is a BOC trademark ! I use Saffire 3 cutting and welding torches, got the first one in 1969 so a long standing use of the name ! At some point BOC tookover Murex the welding rod Etc makers.It was once said that a counties industrial might could be judged by their consumption of oxygen, BOC AND Air Products are Both now owned by the french !!! Noel.

[damianParticipant @damiannoble34800]

There's a lot of info there chaps and I'm certain they are silicon bronze from your comments. I've had the vernier on them and they are just under 3.2mm.

Just on with some others now which have no markings at all

The ones above are 308 stainless. But not sure what the duller rods are?

[damianParticipant @damiannoble34800]

Filing the end up seems to be softer than stainless and as flexible as the brass being like for like diameter?

I've not tries melting any as yet so maybe that will give a clue?

Mentioning boc my dad has some oxygen acetylene torches but no gas so they will probably head for sale as I have no use for them ( just got TIG tackle hence the thread)

Cheers and again thanks for the answers and advice

[damianParticipant @damiannoble34800]

Finally found some flux. The same one as Nick detailed above

The tin is rather battered but usable.

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