Forgotten engineering techniques

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Posted by AndyP on 10/01/2015 15:19:31:

bentonite can be easy to find

Cat litter. Tthere are lots of different types, but some actually state bentonite on the packing otherwise go for clumping clay..

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Mr Speed Builder %…

I to have some very old books, mine will be passed on to a specialist library……

Even an model eng club with the view for them keep…..forever…

PLEASE DON'T BIN THEM

when the lecky finally runs out printed paper is all that's left…..vivla le revolution….hahaha…..

clogs

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Before binning any old books on the basis that; "there must be scan of it available" …

Have a look at the quality of the images in this scanned copy of "The Calculation Of Change Wheels For Screw Cutting On Lathes"

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/01/2015 17:57:22

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There is quite a bit in old issues of ME even in the sisties in Jynes Corner including how to make good cores for casting using fresh cow manure and old rope. If you are going to go all modern and non smelly then Sodium Silicate (waterglass) is sold for clearing homebrewed beer and CO2 in some MIG welding supplies – probably one reason why it caught on as a process.

We really are losing touch with the knowledge of our parents generation if people don't know where lard comes from. Any fat off the skin, head, bowels ets whch can be cleaned by 'rendering' which is boiling in water where on it floats to the surface. Lard is from pigs and tallow is the fat from cows which is harder though that depends a bit on the source of the fat and process details.

This can also be done with humans as was practiced by one Victorian murderer who sold the fat to neighbours. I forget the name of that one but must be in an old book somewhere.

It is debateable whether some of these old processes,eg using tallow for lubrication, are actually that good as they were adopted when there simple was no other choice of product.

 

Edited By Bazyle on 10/01/2015 19:45:48

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> a tub of Lard

We used to have one in Parliament, but these days he just writes reviews for The Oldie.

Neil

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Forgotten engineering techniques ? Any aspect of engineering that doesn't have a computer attached . Seriously i'd say anything with mostly handwork such as filing, hand scraping flat surfaces, fitting etc. I qualify this by saying i mean this about the engineering trades and professions, not in amateur engineering work. As i was told a long time ago, no one is going to pay you to stand at a bench filing things.

[“Bill Hancox”Participant @billhancox]

Posted by Larry Coleman 1 on 10/01/2015 09:35:46:

That is an excelent link and I liked the tree lathe. Thanks Ed !

I remember operating a lathe driven from a line shaft with flat leather belts. It was a WH&S nightmare but it worked well. On the fine cuts you jammed a bit of wood against the spindle to reduce the slop in the bronze bearing.

Larry

Here are a couple of examples of belt driven machinery. During my working life, I used these photos in one the courses that I instructed on machine guarding. Of particular note is the absence of a guard on the large band saw. Oddly enough, there was very little difference in the rate of serious accidents (those which result in injury and lost time for the employee) during this era and the rate of serious accidents in the present day. However, it is important to note that in those days, even in unionized shops, if you ignored a trade standard or supervisor's instruction you would most likely be escorted to the gate. One of my favorite sayings when teaching H&S was: "Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious at bypassing safety systems and standards." Another favorite was: "The person in your shop most responsible and accountable for protecting your health and safety is YOU!"

Bill

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Posted by Bazyle on 10/01/2015 19:45:21:

This can also be done with humans as was practiced by one Victorian murderer who sold the fat to neighbours. I forget the name of that one but must be in an old book somewhere.

It is debateable whether some of these old processes,eg using tallow for lubrication, are actually that good as they were adopted when there simple was no other choice of product.

That wouln't be Mr Sweeny Todd who used to run a barber's shop near where I went to school in Bethnal Green? He was a nice piece of work! Only got discovered when a patron of his pie shop found a fingernail in a pie.

So what modern alternatives to tallow would be useful for piston fits in small engines?

* Danny M *

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Yes your right bill.

WH&S has gone way past its purpose these days and high payed government employees use it to justify their salary.

Manufacturing in Australia has almost died and WH&S have a lot to be responsible for.

NASA has developed some miracle lubrications in the last ten years theres no need to kill animals for lard. But I am not ridiculing hunting as a hobby. I have participated in the ultimate hunt but the hunted was shooting back at me and on one occasion hit me. I think when you know what its like to be hunted you loose all enthusiasm with the sport.

Hey Andy if you turn your monitor around can you read the back of the page. And still have not told us what the machedy is for.

Larry

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Bill

What drove the line shafts, steam engine or diesel.

I find those old buildings fascinating. When I lived in Sydney my friend and I used to explore the old gas works which was steam driven and the steam engines were still in place. The old retorts were still in tact but it would have been a hell of a place to work.

I had to laugh, I was offered a diesel engine once for nothing and on investigation I found it was a 4 cylinder Ruston & Hornby. The only problem is it was about Twenty feet high and weighed 38 Ton. The alternator was ten feet in dia. What a pitty I didn't own a low loader and had some where to store it. It was a beautiful old engine still in running condition. Simsmetal got it for scrap.

Larry

Edited By Larry Coleman 1 on 11/01/2015 03:58:56

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Hey clogs

The old books I have will go to the power house museum. I commend you if you make sure their preserved.

My prize possession is the 1906 Babcock & Wilcox "Steam Its generation and use" It has some amazing charts on how to design smoke stacks from brick.

It also talks about boiler explosions which I will scan for you all to read.

Larry

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

[“Bill Hancox”Participant @billhancox]

Posted by Larry Coleman 1 on 11/01/2015 03:56:37:

Bill

What drove the line shafts, steam engine or diesel.

Larry

At the time, they were driven by coal fired steam. This yard is still in business but of course now fully modernized. In 1925 they built everything from wooden schooners and ketches to riveted freighters. As a young boy of 4 or 5, my father was stationed at a nearby army post. We lived right across the road from the drydock. In the summer, I spent many an hour at the fence on a bluff looking down at the various operations. Talk about steam. It was everywhere.Steam engines shunting material and cargo; steam powered cranes and derricks lifting and moving things. I also remember watching with fascination the old steam powered dredge that they used to keep the channels open. It was moved about by an ancient steam powered tugboat. In those days (early 50s) there were no two way radios in use. It seemed as though all communication was by various steam whistle signals. Thrilling sights and sounds for a young lad. In those days ship designs on paper meant little to people who were in the shipping business. The blueprints did not give them a clear enough picture of the lines and overall look of the boat. Hence the model shop, where they made scale models for the owner's approval. I wonder what ever happened to those models.

Bill

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Tallow, flux for soldering/burning lead ie., wiped joints on cables, joining lead pipes.

The workshop photos remind me of the workshop a King Edward Technical Collage in Dunedin as it was when I was there. The line shaft was driven by a 10hp electric motor, but before that it had been run by a steam engine.

Ian S C

[Bodgit Fixit and RunParticipant @bodgitfixitandrun]

The best technique I have ever come accross which you can still see in use today is actually an old addage. "If you can't fit it… 'it it!!! also. If you can't find a G clamp micrometers work really well and come in a variety of sizes.

Edited By Bodgit Fixit and Run on 11/01/2015 09:41:35

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Bazyle,

"Education" nowadays appears to be all about preparing students to pass the exams thrust upon them, and nothing to do about teaching them stuff that will be useful in life.

HSE/Govt have a lot to answer for, and I am astonished that this country puts up with the utter pettiness of most of it.

(Just had to get that off of my chest, and now appeared an appropriate moment)

I too despair at what is not being taught.

Talking of tallow, I use it on my 1935 Austin Seven, soaking various felt seals in the molten product, then letting it set.

'The Old Man' knew a thing or two, and we still cannot find modern lip seals to replace all the felt ones.

Available at your local supermarket, so boosting their dwindling profits

Geoff – Family passed on their chest infection. No wonder our hospitals are in trouble!

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

An adaptation of the 'rag trick' is emery cloth. Fold it in half (scratchy side to scratchy side) and drill away.. It works a treat, I used it many times in the past. My old uncle's adage was "never force anything always use the correct size hammer"

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Using chalk on a file to stop getting burrs sticking to the teeth, when using emery or wet & dry use bees wax for a superior finish.

Clive

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

I though pig fat was dripping..beef fat lard…sheep fat tallow..

But intresting point..some of the alchemical formula and names do need explanation/translation. .

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

When you re-grind a drill to only a small point in the middle with the rest of the tip almost flat but a little hollow shaped so only the outer edge of the tip is cutting (it looks similar to those pointed wood drills), you can drill easily holes in very thin material. Niko.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Dripping is pig fat, all the scrappy leftovers put in a dish in low oven and left. the white fat sets on top, good for cooking, soft fat below that with brown stuff below that- good for spreading on bread for breakfast. the crispy bits are far better than any "scratchings" you can buy. Lard is usually the white fat off cows, the hard white fat around some organs is the best, can also be suet. Tallow I think is just a generic term for grease, but could well be wrong, also regional differences. Ps I have dealt with a few pigs ,sheep and cows.

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Yes I found the old workshops and factories fascinating.

What did you think about that page on the force of boiler explosions. Three and a half miles would have been a big bang.

One thing you have in the UK & Europe is some of the old machinery has been saved but Australia does not have that history because we convicts have only been here for 200 years.

I would really love to visit the UK one day and visit the museums. Some of the old castles and archeology like Stone Heng must be real spooky. The engenuity invested in some of those old steam pumps would have me gob smacked.

In regards to drilling with that concave drill that works but it dosn't when you have an existing hole or pilot hole.

One thing I found facinating was lead wiping car panels instead of plastic bog. It never rusted out and is not done today.

Larry

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Here's one for you.

When I worked in the ship yards we used to hang our old files in the salt water on a wire to sharpen them. The electrolysis would remove the pinned material and eat the teeth fairly evenly then we would use them again.

The wire must be grounded. And it is not perfect but it works OK.

Michael I was talking to Howard yesterday and he uses power transmission fluid on his auto lathes as a coolant and apparently its flammability is not so risky.

Larry

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Referring back to the cylinder square, I've found the easiest and quickest way to check an engineers square is to find a piece of straight edged scrap metal, use the square to scribe a line and then turn the square over and check to see if the scribed line lines up.

Simples.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Tallow is rendered Beef or Mutton fat, for use in a workshop it does need some thinning, perhaps 20% mineral oil (Thin) This way it is easy to apply with a small brush and it is in fact still supplied by the parent Company Leica from their tool and adhesive and lubricants catalogue. You will not be able to buy it from them unless you are a subsidary Company.

Easy to make your own,, obtain the hard fat from beef and cut into very small bits and use a heavy pan and heat slowly, filter the liquid and store in sealed jam jars. Make a mix with mineral oil for the workshop, other wise try it for frying eggs etc. Pig fat is not the same as beef fat, but at a pinch it will make a nice bacon smell as you use it!

Clive

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