Emco FB2

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello Michael, good morning.

Please see ***LINK*** on the relation of Elliot Machines with EMCO.
Do you have, by any chance, historic information about this relationship you can share, please?

Besrt regards
Dias Costa

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Hi All…Well I certainly learnt a bit of History about thse wonderful Little Mills, We only scratch the surface here with the smaller stuff as commercially all our products are large batch CNC work. I keep the Myford / Emco Machines to Train Apprentices / Work Experience Students."The Old Mechanical Way" as well as having the ability to show & demonstrate the CNC / Robotic stuff.It's nice to be able to show the younger generation how things used to be.

ALL 3 of My EmcoFB2's are top notch, loaded with cowells / Elliott accessories. I have just bought 3 Cowells Indexers with 3 jaw Chucks & Full Collett systems for 4th Axis Indexing.

We Have 3 elliott Low Profile 6" Rotary Tables. All Old Stock But Extremely accurate.

I have just fitted a 125 "P" Grade Bison 3 Bolt Front Mount 3 Jaw Chuck (£650 from Rotagrip) To One Of The Elliott Rotary Tables, And Have Clocked It With Zero Runout ! Aboloutely Top Notch Stuff.Amazing Accuracy From A 3 Jaw Chuck !

Yes The CNC Stuff Is Very Good And Has Its place in commercial work, But I Can't help having a very keen interest (STILL) In the "old" Mechanical ways….

I Will Make Sure The Leadscrews I Make Will Extend The Life Of These Little FB2's For Years To Come. THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS A COMMERCIAL / PROFIT MAKING VENTURE.

But Once Set Up To Make 1or 2..My CNC's may aswell Roll Out A Few Hundred.!!

All The Best..Kev

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Dias ,

I've had a dig around but I'm sorry that apart from lots of magazine adverts showing EMCO style machines under Selecta , Elliot and EME badges I don't have any really new information to give you .

Graham's information is interesting and undoubtedly correct but I am left with the paradox that Emco style smaller machines , and especially the two bar Unimat , were sometimes seen at trade outlets with Union Jack stickers and Kite marks .

Elliot were already beginning to see hard times in the seventies and to survive they were looking for alliances with other companies in UK and elsewhere . Link up with Maier would have made good business sense .

There's some information about Elliot's generally in an earlier discussion about Champion drilling machines .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello Michael, good morning.

Thank you for the information. It helps me understand the EMCO history.

Regards
Dias Costa

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Posted by MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 09/06/2013 11:16:42:

… but I am left with the paradox that Emco style smaller machines , and especially the two bar Unimat , were sometimes seen at trade outlets with Union Jack stickers and Kite marks .

Hi Michael;

I've got a Kerry 1124 lathe, new model, with a badge that says "Made in Canada" – which I highly doubt. They may have screwed the nameplate on in Canada, having imported it "incomplete" or some such shenannigans like that. The lathe came out of a school, so maybe there was some law that stated that they had to be made in Canada?

I wonder if the Elliott name-badged machines under some equivalent scheme?

John A. Stewart

[Frank.N StormParticipant @frank-nstorm18349]

Posted by Graham Meek on 04/06/2013 13:45:30:

But if I were changing the leadscrews I would opt for Ball-screws, fit and forget, plus it would be ready to computerise at a later date, should the need arise.

Gray,

Well I'm really surprised that a man with the expertise of Mr. Meek would install ballscrews in a manual mill.
Ballscrews have no locking resistance to speak of, so putting on a cut would just shove the table away from the cutter. Climb milling would be very interesting too – at least to look at from far away!

Regards, Frank

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Yes Frank I agree that would be a little too uncontrollable for me !! Ballscrews are a definate non starter for manual machines ! Cnc yes with programmed auto axis clamping !!

Manual emco Fb2 definately not !!!!

the leadscrews and nuts i will make will be the cherry on the cake !! The leadscrews will be hardened

and the combination of the phos bronze nut and the hardened leadscrew will make the fb2 very good mill already ! Into an excellent professional quality mill, half the problem seem to be ,, getting the fb2 owners to admit that the stock leadscrew and nut was a poor quality soft cheap option,

full details of my leadscrew material / plan pf action will be posted on wednesday night when i have spoken to an expert friend of mine here in the states, before returning to the UK, he is a senior manager with HAAS automation, with 40 years of experience,in the manufacture of industrial milling machines & lathes. i will see what he recommends for leadscrew material production method & final hardening process, whatever he recommends i will adhere to, Regardless of cost or time , whatever Karl says will be gospel !

All the best

kev

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

And the golden rule is cheaper is never better !

i have orders for 87 sets of these now

so will only have nine sets left as "spare"

cheers

kev

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just for the record … here is Rejon's statement about EMCO.

ichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

For the number of hours done by a hobby lathe, over an industrial one working 8 hrs a day, 5 or 6 days a week, the "soft" feedscrew would proberbly be the ecconomical way the manufacturer would see its life at just a few hours a week, and some times with long gaps between use. Ian S C

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Hi Ian

trouble is … Most of these machines now are 30 yrs old !! Even with a few hours use a week this equates to a lot of wear on the ultra soft leadscrew and even softer die cast alloy nut, i know i have 4 of these little mills now,

cheers

kev

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Perhaps with hobby work about 30yrs is long enough, it then gets buryed with the owner. Ian S C

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Ha ha yes Ian that is what they will do with me i am sure !

and of course it also depends on the required accuracy ! A lot of engineers make it up as they go along

unfortunately we have to work to drawings with tolerences of 0.05mm

on a daily basis

regards

kev

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

So what model Haas has PB nuts ?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Kev Drake on 09/06/2013 18:26:47:

And the golden rule is cheaper is never better !

i have orders for 87 sets of these now

so will only have nine sets left as "spare"

cheers

kev

That means in two weeks you have got every owner with a machine in captivity

Cogratulations

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Hi, no the original order was for 50 pairs from an austrian company who originally requested 10 nuts

after receiving them they have now ordered 75 pairs of leadscrews and 100 pairs of leadscrew nuts

i have received 12 orders and i need 4 pairs for our machines here to upgrade their longevity and accuracy

cheers

kev

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

No proffesional or industrial mill uses cast alloy nuts with soft steel leadscrews

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Kev Drake on 11/06/2013 13:04:18:

Ha ha yes Ian that is what they will do with me i am sure !

and of course it also depends on the required accuracy ! A lot of engineers make it up as they go along

unfortunately we have to work to drawings with tolerences of 0.05mm

on a daily basis

regards

kev

Is that a typo Kev? (0.05mm Tolerance)

Its not clear whether you mean the drawings are drawn to 0.05mm (needs non stretchy paper) or the parts themselves? 0.05mm is agricultural to some engineers.

By coincidence yesterday, I took some thickness measurements of an elliptical dining table top (Sandwich of Oak veneer, MDF, Aluminium honeycomb, MDF, oak veneer) and the maker has now hand sanded it to nominally 43mm, The twelve points I measured (at the edges) were all within 0.1mm. I was impressed!

Ian P

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Sorri Ian

this bloody i phone !!! Or is it my saisage fingers ??? Ooops sausage

parts tol

0.005mm

i will get there !!

ive only had this a month not bad for a 73 yr old !!!

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

I am speaking to the master of machinery Karl tomorrow so should be able to confirm the best

material spec and hardening / manufacturing process he recommends for the manually traversed fb2 which no doubt will be very different to the modern cnc stuff

but if you google leadscrew manufacturing a certain well known manufacturer uses 3 series stainless

??

good grief !!

made in china i fear rusty on arrival !!

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

JOHN FROM BASINGSTOKE,,,

Sorry my friend i have only just seen the inbox message you sent me last week , i cant reply from my inbox i am sorry as. The text box appears very small

re pricing…I am hoping to do these for less than £100 per set if possible including uk shipping by DPD, who have our freight contract for everything under 1 ton in weight

however i will confirm this price possibly tomorrow night

thanks

kev

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Hi Gray

Hardly an advertising forum £100 gb for 2 x phos bronze leadscrew nuts

complete with 2 x leadscrews ( hardened) ground threads

incl woodruff keys

incl recorded 24 hr courier

96 gone already,

unless of courseyou have drawing to make the leadscrews

no point whatsoever of fitting new nuts on old leadscrews

and the soft stock leadscrews are £500 a pair from promach

price the materials for doing your own

its a "no brainer" and a non starter without the machinery we have here at my disposal

regards

kev

[Diane CarneyModerator @dianecarney30678]

Indeed Graham

I have sent Mr Drake a very polite PM which he has either not seen or has chosen to ignore.

We have a very approachable advertising manager, Kev, if you would care to give him a call.

Please – no more advertising your own business on this forum.

This is the second time of asking…. !

Diane

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Hear Hear, Diane

I find it interesting and useful to learn of a new engineering company, product or service via this forum, but not when it gets banged on about repeatedly so thanks.

Ian P

[Jeff BatesParticipant @jeffbates19503]

Hi Diane

sorry ! I cant for some reason access my inbox messages

as the text is to small when i click on invox from my i phone

i have no pc access until i return from the states at the weekend

i am suprised that your system doesnt show you that your messages to me are UNREAD???

certainly not "ignored" !!!!!!

regards

kev

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